Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Germany

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Proposed deletion of Annett Renneberg

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The article Annett Renneberg has been proposed for deletion because it appears to have no references. Under Wikipedia policy, this biography of a living person will be deleted after seven days unless it has at least one reference to a reliable source that directly supports material in the article. The nominator also raised the following concern:

Unreferenced article about German actress

If you created the article, please don't be offended. Instead, consider improving the article. For help on inserting references, see Referencing for beginners, or ask at the help desk. Once you have provided at least one reliable source, you may remove the {{prod blp/dated}} tag. Please do not remove the tag unless the article is sourced. If you cannot provide such a source within seven days, the article may be deleted, but you can request that it be undeleted when you are ready to add one.

Article being questioned as to notability

Bagger 1473 might be of interest. I have "adopted" it. There has been some discussion of its notability in WP terms. Comments welcome on the TP. Jmar67 (talk) 19:30, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

Otto Brixner

Hi, could you please have a look at this article. It has been imported from German Wikipedia where it is a case for arbitration committee due to puffery. I removed the attacking contents, but I am not sure whether this work is finished. --2A02:8388:580:6600:49AA:E6F2:7647:7BF5 (talk) 17:06, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

I will look closer at the German article, talk page discussion, and refs. The translation was too literal to be understood in some places. The Mollath article is well written and can serve as a guideline. I remember this case. Jmar67 (talk) 00:45, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
@Jmar67: please, have a look at what happened to this article today and whether this is according to the guidelines --Domitius Ulpianus (talk) 21:39, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Pančevo

Dear All,

there is a questionable edit/addition that was rephrased now [1], but was several times an attemt to add [2], [3]..I raised a question in the talk and asked for source & explanation, but I did not get...anyway the users edit logs are quite..how to say...does not seem serious, or it is meant to be a joke? As having good faith, I don't involve recently an admin, but please suprevise the issue somehow, is this addition valid? Merkel's father is not theperson referred there...Thank You(KIENGIR (talk) 23:21, 30 June 2019 (UTC))

I'm inclined to say it's a joke (the latest link implies he saved Merkel, but earlier additions have claimed its her mother, although her mother does not have the name given by the contributor), but based on the contributor's page (User:AustrianFreedom), I'd say the user may have some mental issues. I've reverted that particular edit, but this looks like it may be something of a longterm problem.
Based on this edit summary 1 I've informed an admin about them.--Ermenrich (talk) 23:48, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
Ermenrich, some time aftermath, please check again the article along with the Rascians...
One example grabbed out ([4]), the former user claimed in his unblock request that he would be -> "look at my official website: Richard Saringer - Actor / LINKS", and now we have a user exactly with this name...I don't wish to place any unfold accusation, but only I'd smell some socking here?(KIENGIR (talk) 10:16, 8 July 2019 (UTC))
@KIENGIR:, I started an investigation a few days ago if you or anyone else has anything to add there. Unfortunately they always take a bit of time.--Ermenrich (talk)

Grohe

Dear all,

I am working in the communications department of Grohe. I therefore have a financial COI. I have been working on updating the German de:Grohe article together with a mentor, who kindly took his time to help me create a thorough article about Grohe based on what existed already. We therefore mostly updated old information, but also added new information (mainly in the history and corporate structure sections), where we felt important information was missing. Based on this, I created a similar update for the English version of the article and suggested some updates on the talk page; first I suggested to delete some - what I believed was sugarcoated - wording and some format changes and now some updates to the history section. One user was already so kind to take some time to review a few suggestions but does currently not have the time to check more.

I therefore wanted to ask, if somebody here would be willing to help me with this. The last suggestions I made can be seen in this diff.

Thank you very much in advance for your time. Looking forward to your feedback.

Kind regards, --JBJDus17 (talk) 09:48, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

MfD nomination of Portal:Lusatia

Ambox warning orange.svg Portal:Lusatia, a portal relevant to this project, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; you may participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Lusatia and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Portal:Lusatia during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Bermicourt (talk) 21:06, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

RfC on Immigration and crime in Germany

The "By region" section is subject to an RfC. Please see the RfC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Immigration_and_crime_in_Germany#RfC:_%22By_Region%22_section and contribute. Regards, AadaamS (talk) 10:20, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

A frienly reminder to contribute to this RfC. It would be unfortunate if an RfC was decided by editors who may not read sources which are in German. AadaamS (talk) 17:26, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Lübeck University of Applied Sciences

Would someone from WP:GER mind taking a look at this article? There are some minor things which can be cleaned up fairly easily (e.g. MOS:SECTIONCAPS, WP:NOTDIRECTORY, WP:ORDER), but the main thing is that the article seems to be citing de:Technische Hochschule Lübeck as its only source. Actually, it's not really citing the German Wikipedia article about the school per se, but rather the sources cited in the German Wikipedia article, but the wy it's doing this is not really how it should be done. It might also be a translation of the German Wikipedia article which would require attribuition per WP:TFOLWP. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:03, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Lots of red links

I recently started List of members of the 19th Bundestag (almost two years late) and found out our coverage of German MPs is rather lacking. So if you feel bored, why not start a stub on a politician? If you choose well, maybe you can start the article on the future Chancellor of Germany ;) —Kusma (t·c) 19:18, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

The Bundestag constituencies are also in a horrible shape (some of the articles haven't been updated since 2009!). I also don't know what the best format is. Instead of updating an existing article, I just tried a slight variation at Koblenz (electoral district), but getting the data into the tables is too much work to do manually. Any ideas on the best way forward? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kusma (talkcontribs) 20:56, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

I am active on this field. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lovemankind83 (talkcontribs) 09:43, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

I noticed :) Thank you for helping out! —Kusma (t·c) 09:50, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
The page has still has so many instances of {{Interlanguage link}} that it shows up in Category:Pages with too many expensive parser function calls, so some of the red links at the end are not garnished with an {{ill}}. Under 500 red links would be nice ;) —Kusma (t·c) 20:00, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Albert Kesselring

Albert Kesselring] has now reached the voting phase of WP:FAR at Wikipedia:Featured article review/Albert Kesselring/archive1. Interested parties are encouraged to drop by. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:14, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

Christian Morgenstern, Galgenlieder, Nachdichtung by Lettvin of Der Hecht

My apologies for suggesting a correction of Lettvin's Nachdichtung of Der Hecht from The Fat Abbot, Fall-Winter of '62.

http://jerome.lettvin.com/Jerome/TheFatAbbot.pdf

Included here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galgenlieder

[Der Hecht] adored the Host, denounced the Aryan

Ought it not be Arian - an adherent of an early Christian heresy taught by Arius, Archdeacon of Alexandria, denying the divinity of Christ and appointing him the role of the foremost spirit of God's creation* as opposed to Aryan, one of the Indo-European race, or in racialist discourse a Northern European?

This error runs back to the original periodical.

Lettvin was clearly a highly erudite man so I can only assume the printer stumbled. As the entire literary conceit is part of Lettvin's invention referring to the original is useless.

A footnote on the possibility might help.

Also to aid comprehension of the Nachdichtung of 'Der Werwolf', a footnote might explain that Ontology Recapitulates Philology is another joke of Lettwin's. Sadly nowadays few would recognise that it is a parody of Haeckel's Biogenetic Law, expressed as Die Ontogenese recapituliert die Phylogenese, the supposed and chimerical principle that the embryonic development of an organism repeats its evolution.

2A00:23C6:C08A:200:3C49:8D4:E5CD:B2E9 (talk) 16:03, 16 August 2019 (UTC) Patrick Gray (amateur, late Dux of Dornoch Academy, applying to St. Andrew's to study German.)

  • Agreeing nicely with the ecclesiastical atmosphere and Pelagianism, another early Christian heresy denying the Original Sin, taught by a British monk, Pelagius, and mentioned in the Nachdichtung.
Hi Patrick, your theory that Arianism, not Aryanism is intended, is plausible, but unless there are any scholarly sources that state this theory, Wikipedia can't really suggest this -- it is original research. It seems to me that Lettvin's versions of the texts are actually more sophisticated than the original (Lettvin compares Morgenstern to Lewis Carroll; personally, I explain Ogden Nash to Germans by comparing him to Morgenstern). Good luck with your university place! —Kusma (t·c) 19:22, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

MfD nomination of Portal:Eifel

Ambox warning orange.svg Portal:Eifel, a page related to this project, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; you may participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Eifel and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Portal:Eifel during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Bermicourt (talk) 06:23, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

MfD nomination of Portal:Ore Mountains

Ambox warning orange.svg Portal:Ore Mountains, a page related to this project, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; you may participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Ore Mountains and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Portal:Ore Mountains during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Bermicourt (talk) 20:16, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

MfD nomination of Portal:Elbe Sandstone Mountains

Ambox warning orange.svg Portal:Elbe Sandstone Mountains, a page related to this project, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; you may participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Elbe Sandstone Mountains and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Portal:Elbe Sandstone Mountains during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Bermicourt (talk) 20:16, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

MfD nomination of Portal:Westerwald

Ambox warning orange.svg Portal:Westerwald, a page related to this project, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; you may participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Westerwald and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Portal:Westerwald during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Bermicourt (talk) 20:16, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

MfD nomination of Portal:Lüneburg Heath

Ambox warning orange.svg Portal:Lüneburg Heath, a page related to this project, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; you may participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Lüneburg Heath and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Portal:Lüneburg Heath during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Bermicourt (talk) 20:18, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

MfD nomination of Portal:Palatine Forest

Ambox warning orange.svg Portal:Palatine Forest, a page related to this project, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; you may participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Palatine Forest and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Portal:Palatine Forest during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Bermicourt (talk) 20:27, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Need help with Historian/Linguist and Nazi Walter Kuhn

I think that any members of the project who know any Polish and might be able to access Polish-language sources should really take a look at the article Walter Kuhn. Compare that to his biography in the Ostdeutsche Bibliographie by Norbert Angermann [5]. Now I admit, that biography is clearly sanitized of his involvement with Nazism, but I've already caught one misleading citation in our article and I notice that the worst accusations against Kuhn tend to be cited, without page numbers, to Polish sources. In one case I think (citation that Kuhn was prejudiced against Poles) as far as I can tell there is no indication that Kuhn was influenced by this to encourage genocide, as seems to be implied in the current article [6], but my certainty is limited by the fact that I'm using my A1 Czech and google translate to read the Polish and the the preview is so limited on google books. At the very least it looks like a question of WP:Weight. At the moment we present Kuhn as though he was only some kind of Nazi shill (and he appears to have done some of that), which completely ignores his apparently very reputable career after the war.--Ermenrich (talk) 00:27, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

I've begun trying to revise the article, but some help with the Polish sources in particular would be appreciated.--Ermenrich (talk) 13:46, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
Another user has added back a lot of content I removed as WP:UNDUE for WP:WEIGHT and WP:POV reasons. I would very much appreciate any independent assessments of the state of the article.--Ermenrich (talk) 04:25, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

Discussion of interest

A discussion which may be of interest to members of this project can be found here. Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:37, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

German nobility

I need some help understanding the German nobility, and article 109 of the Weimar Constitution. According to the many pages on different German nobility, following 1919, titles were changed to just be a part of the surname (e.g. Graf#Modern usage in German surnames). However, the wording is not very specific as to the broader affect. Because when looking at people who died 6, 21 and 117 years before the law came into effect, they are also written as if affected by the law. But can a law really retroactively change peoples names and history? In any case, it needs to be better clarified on the various pages and nobility templates. Skjoldbro (talk) 16:01, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

I think the key phrase from Artikel 109, "Adelsbezeichnungen gelten nur als Teil des Namens und dürfen nicht mehr verliehen werden", simply meant that titles such as "Graf" were no longer considered as such but rather just a component of the name. Prior to 1919, they were regarded as titles, which were also part of the formal name. I do not understand your concern. Jmar67 (talk) 06:42, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
@Jmar67: it just seems like every German page, regardless of age, has the title as a last name. E.g. Otto Eduard Leopold Fürst von Bismarck, Herzog zu Lauenburg, should it not rather be “Fürst Otto Eduard”? Skjoldbro (talk) 14:01, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
I think that's how it's always been said in modern German, but I'm not entirely sure.--Ermenrich (talk) 14:04, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
The title used with a geographical region, family name, or other qualifier normally goes at the end. Otherwise it precedes the name. In order for it to be considered part of the name in the sense of Article 109, it has to follow the first convention, e.g. Otto Graf Lambsdorff, not Graf Otto Lambsdorff, to use an example of a prominent FDP politician during my stay in Germany. It may have been common prior to 1919 to place "Graf" ahead of the name in particular families. But it looks like "von Schlieffen" did not do that. In the case of Bismarck, there were two titles involved (Fürst and Herzog), and they would have to follow the name. At any rate, placing the title after the name is not necessarily a consequence of the Weimar Constitution. Jmar67 (talk) 02:56, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
@Jmar67:@Ermenrich: Thanks for the replies, I guess that makes sense. Do you think the pages on German nobility pages are clear enough in pointing this out? Skjoldbro (talk) 18:38, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
I don't think it is necessary to mention the 1919 change unless it is especially noteworthy (such as the Graf Lambsdorff case). If you think a particular page should address it, please advise. Jmar67 (talk) 10:48, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
I can't think of any particular case where it would need to be pointed out, but there might be some.--Ermenrich (talk) 13:26, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

POV at the article Werner Conze

Werner Conze was a very important West German historian, the co-editor of Geschichtliche Grundbegriffe [de], and one of the founders of Conceptual history. According to our article, Werner Conze, however: Werner Conze (born December 11, 1910 in Amt Neuhaus, died April 1986 in Heidelberg) was a pro- Nazi German historian in Nazi Germany, who continued to work as historian in post-World War II West Germany. He was a member of the Schieder commission.. Compare that with de:Werner Conze, which handles Conze's Nazi connections in a neutral manner. Note also that Conze had a career of 41 years after World War II. I'm currently otherwise occupied dealing with similar issues on the article Walter Kuhn, but I implore anyone who knows anything about West German historiography, or anyone who can access RS on it, to help clean this thing up. This is a persistent problem in many articles.--Ermenrich (talk) 18:28, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

I realize people are very reluctant to touch articles like this, especially after my own recent experiences trying to edit one. But the article doesn't just suffer from POV, it suffers from mis-used or distorted sources and serious WP:WEIGHT and WP:DUE issues. I would hope someone from the project most qualified to address things like this would at least try to make a difference. There are several good sources on Conze, including a complete biography from 2010.--Ermenrich (talk) 13:30, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

Rudi Gutendorf

I have nominated Rudi Gutendorf in the Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates was a Guinness record holder having coached 55 teams in 32 countries across five continents.Article needs to be updated need.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 21:26, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

@Pharaoh of the Wizards: Have added one more coaching job he had from this source. The source also puts his spell at Hertha two years later, please check upon that again. Zwerg Nase (talk) 09:44, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
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