Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football

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WikiProject Football (Rated Project-class)
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Continent World Cup Qualifier Maps

Images similar to this would be useful for World Cup qualifier pages by continent

Hello everyone. I was reviewing some of the UEFA Euros and World Cup qualifier pages, and noticed that whereas the Euro qualifiers had maps that illustrated which nations did and did not qualify, the World Cup counterparts lack these. While I would create and add these maps myself, I have no experience, so I was wondering if anyone would support or be willing to add the images themselves. Thanks. Good888 (talk) 11:09, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

You need to use a web site such as, and then save the image and move it to wikipedia. Good luck!Jopal22 (talk) 21:42, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
Does anyone know how to do this with England, Scotland, Wales split. All the tools I can find have the UK as one? ThanksJopal22 (talk) 09:20, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Don't these kind of maps already exist here? DelUsion23 (talk) 21:19, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

I was asking because I also want to create a map for another article, so I wanted to know how to put my own together--Jopal22 (talk) 21:32, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
@Delusion23: Not from a continent perspective, which would be useful for the UEFA qualification pages. Like with Jopal22, I am looking for the right European map needed to make said images. Thanks. Good888 (talk) 21:59, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Matías Vera

Hello! Quick question about Matías Vera. A deal was announced by Houston Dynamo, stating they've signed Matías Vera. However, in the official release on their website they state it is "pending receipt of his International Transfer Certificate (ITC) and P-1 Visa along with a completed medical". As such, I added that information to the article but didn't change the infobox, categories etc. @UncleTupelo1: disagrees, he says the deal is completed despite the aforementioned - claiming it's "standard MLS transfer talk", with Vera added to Houston's squad list here. In fairness, I've been following to see if/when the medical gets done and have seen many media acting as if the transfer is indeed done. So, what's the stance that should be taken? R96Skinner (talk) 16:59, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Well, for absolute reasoning, the transfer is NOT completed. The transfer can fail or incomplete (fail medical , after the closure of transfer window, if applicable). But to avoid edit war, it just leave them on infobox and remove 3 days later if the transfer do fails. Save a lot of undo and time on watch list. Matthew hk (talk) 17:04, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
Agree with Matthew - you're technically right, but there's no reason to revert. Yes, it's not technically complete, but the fact there's a press release from the club, along with the fact he's on their roster, means that it's almost certain to occur. SportingFlyer talk 05:00, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
Side note: the deal was announced on 21 December, so it has been a while. I reverted to how the article was pre-UncleTupelo1's edits while a discussion could take place, assuming that was standard. It does seems strange to tell any potential reader that the transfer is done when it isn't though. No danger of an edit war at all, just wanted a discussion first. I've restored UncleTupelo1's edits. R96Skinner (talk) 05:24, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
Well, if the deal was announced in December and the medical was in January or February and the transfer window open in February (in FIFA list, 13/02/2019 for the male transfer window), then may be worth to tell the user it is not complete and WP:Crystal. Matthew hk (talk) 09:19, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
BTW, even the transfer window did not opens, the user may be had their point. Vera already on the official roster: Matthew hk (talk) 02:08, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Sean Scannell

Born in England, played for Eire at youth and B level. In 2018 he was "interested in switching [his] allegiances to NI" per this but from what I can see never did. An IP keeps changing his flag to NIR rather than IRL. Thoughts? GiantSnowman 16:39, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

His change of nationality never completed. So stay with the old nationality.
Off-topic, i remember there is a footballer that completed his paperwork in FIFA to switch to the new (POB of his father) nationality , but he regretted and refuse to make debut. FIFA declared that he can't switch back to old nationality (his POB), but should we considered his nationality is the new one due to coverage on his switch , or the old nationality due to he did not made any debut.
It would be interesting if some footballer did filed all the paperwork to switch, but did not made any debut for his new nationality in sport. Matthew hk (talk) 16:48, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
The sources appear to confirm he's already declared for NI, given that source and this one say he's submitted paperwork. I would probably still wait until he's actually made an appearance before changing flagicons, but I've added the reported switch to the article in prose. Nzd (talk) 02:49, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Franck Kessié's cap

It seem his international cap was not consistent among the source. For example, soccerway listed a friendly appearance against South Africa. However did not record that match, but against Zambia instead. May be dig out individual match report on newspaper, and add the sum ourselves? Matthew hk (talk) 21:35, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

Since ip changing the value of the cap, and based on RS i can't verify it, so chop the value all together? Matthew hk (talk) 01:58, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
The Côte d'Ivoire women's national team played against South Africa on 25 October 2014, but the men's national team played against Zambia on that date. I haven't found a match report yet, but Soccerway's data appears to be wrong if they claim Kessié appeared against South Africa on this date. Jogurney (talk) 17:29, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
The Lusaka Times indicates that Zambia uses youth players ("Zambia B") so I wonder if FIFA considers this match an "A" international. Jogurney (talk) 17:35, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
The Times of Zambia confirms that this match was not a FIFA "A" international, and it shows Kessié was named in the squad (although I can't be sure he appeared in the match, it would not be an official cap). Jogurney (talk) 17:51, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
Well, may be in the weekend i will verify all the cap and exclude the B cap and may be posting full match list in the talk page for someone else to pick up in the future (but it should just need to add new cap to the 2019 entry of the national cap box, without verify the past cap again). Matthew hk (talk) 01:05, 17 January 2019 (UTC)


Can I confirm that we do not regard transfermarkt as a reliable source? Dumdaiduekdingdao keeps adding two inches onto the height of Jay Emmanuel-Thomas, based on a transfermarkt profile.... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 14:01, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Correct; it is not considered reliable. GiantSnowman 14:04, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
The content of Transfermarkt is user-generated, thus never qualifies as WP:RS. However, it is not cheating if double check their match report collection, compare to other database. I am not sure now how they run, but in the past they once claimed Matteo Guardalben played for Serbia, which Italian newspaper claimed at that time he was injured. Matthew hk (talk) 14:09, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
Three different heights from different reliable sources - please see Talk:Jay Emmanuel-Thomas#Height. GiantSnowman 14:27, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
Talking generally about heights, would anyone disagree with the following statement?
Sources for a player's height can sometimes vary. Where there is a discrepancy, the most recent official source should usually be used. Generally, this would be a player's club/league profile, or FIFA listing.
I'm working up some guidance (per above) and thought this would be a useful thing to add.
The Emmanuel-Thomas example is something of an exception, as discussed on that talk page, and is the main reason for my use of usually/generally. Nzd (talk) 17:56, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
Nzd agree with the statement. At least not that necessary to open discussion on which values for most case. just stick to the latest citation if old and new values are similar (say, ±0.02m) . Matthew hk (talk) 01:07, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

Viking FK players

Viking FK was promoted from the 2nd tier of football in Norway last season (2018), and will now play in a fully professional league in the 2019 Eliteserien. Most of their first team players have professional contracts, but there are currently 11 players without a Wikipedia article. Can I create these articles? Or should I wait until they make an appearance in the league? Sørhaug (talk) 08:51, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Definitely wait. The guidelines relate to individual payers making appearances in a fully pro league, not merely being contacted to a club that plays in one. If you create articles now for players not meeting the criteria, you're liable to find them deleted. Jellyman (talk) 09:35, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
You could create drafts for them? R96Skinner (talk) 09:48, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Ada Hegerberg

Ada Hegerberg is the one we should focus on. ImmortalWizard(chat) 20:55, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

?? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 18:40, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
Yeah so since she is the first woman to win the Ballon do'r, I thought we should use her as the starting point to improve articles related to women's football. ImmortalWizard(chat) 19:18, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
To be honest, it's already about as good as it needs to be. Crowsus (talk) 02:58, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
I think ImmortalWizard was suggesting we use Ada Hegerberg as a template for other women's football articles going forward, not that that article needs any further improvement. – PeeJay 11:06, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

FC Dallas

Didn't we have something against having a large kit gallery like on this page? Govvy (talk) 18:09, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Been discussed a few times previously, these types of sections violate WP:NOTGALLERY. S.A. Julio (talk) 18:11, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Georges Leekens article

I don't follow football, but somehow Georges Leekens made it onto my watch list. Today I saw that there were a number of new & IP editors that removed material from the article, & I am asking editors who are more experienced with the national football teams to have a look. Peaceray (talk) 20:03, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

@Peaceray: If it continues to happen you can request page protection at WP:RPP. I don't see any controversial content to be removed. It really does need better sourcing know. Govvy (talk) 21:23, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Help formatting standings for League1 Ontario

I am having some trouble interpreting the guidelines at WP:WikiProject Football/League season#Standings for League1 Ontario, specifically the 2017 and 2018 seasons which each had different formats. The league is tier 3 in Canada and has no promotion and relegation. The league champion is determined by playoff and also qualifies for Canada's national cup competition. A league cup is also awarded in a separate competition.
I am hoping for some clarification on which colours should be used to indicate playoff berths, should champions be indicated on the standings table despite not being determined until playoffs, should league cup winner be indicated on the standings table with a letter, etc. BLAIXX 20:35, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Both tables look fine to me. SportingFlyer T·C 20:58, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

IP users making wrong infobox updates

Hi there. I've reverted all of the four infobox updates from (talk · contribs · WHOIS) I came across in my watchlist because they were inaccurate. Maybe someone would like to take a look at the remaining changes which are likely wrong? (Edit: In fact, the Talk page suggests a block might be in order.) Regards, (talk) 21:33, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Spot-checked five which hadn't already been reverted. All are incorrect per sources. No clear pattern - sometimes it's adding cup appearances in. Sometimes it's just wrong. I would support rollback of all this IP users edits from 13 January, with appropriate counsel on the users talk page. Cheers, Gricehead (talk) 09:59, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
Similar editing from (talk · contribs · WHOIS) today. GiantSnowman 10:10, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
All edits from (talk · contribs · WHOIS) corrected. Gricehead (talk) 10:21, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
@GiantSnowman and both these IPs activities are what {{footyiu}} is made for, no? Gricehead (talk) 10:27, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
It's not that they are not updating the date - it's that the stats are just plain wrong. GiantSnowman 10:48, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
I did find a couple of correct ones in the 91 IP edits. Not many though, agreed. Gricehead (talk) 11:35, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
I think I found 1 or 2? But I suspect they are simply inputting random figures, and just some happen to be correct... GiantSnowman 11:41, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
I would say it is irritating to fact check 10 articles. Few days ago, a new user randomly add +1 to the stats of Real Madrid players, probably testing or draw attention to review his draft. Back to the ip, if fact checking the first 10 edits (or the first 10 articles), all were wrong, either random + 1 or substitute league stats. to all competition stats in the infobox, i don't feel any wrong to revert all by assuming bad faith (10 is a good sampling for 91 edits), or assume good faith but also assume he/she did all wrong. Matthew hk (talk) 13:39, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
They resumed their disruptive editing today. Time for a block? (talk) 21:46, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
Fixed the seven edits performed by (talk · contribs · WHOIS) today (one was correct in terms of stats, but not dated), and given them a final warning with additional wording about expectations when stats are added to the infobox. Cheers, Gricehead (talk) 13:29, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
Good job! :-) (talk) 19:49, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

FIFA international results page?

Hi, is it just me or have FIFA removed the individual national team results pages? For example, if I click on "All fixtures and results" on Lebanon's profile page on FIFA, it just redirects me to an add for their app. Have they moved the results pages to the app in order to promote it? Thanks, Nehme1499 (talk) 22:57, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Looks like FIFA are pushing their App. I get the same. It's on other national teams pages and also on league club results, standings, etc. You can still get the full rankings but it requires navigation through four pages.   Jts1882 | talk  10:42, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
Do you know where I can find a full list of FIFA approved matches? The app itself is pretty bad and it doesn't show all the matches (in some cases even none). Plus, I sometimes have to use a list of FIFA matches for a specific team as a reference. Nehme1499 (talk) 17:40, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
@Nehme1499: Try TheBigJagielka (talk) 22:25, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

lists of hat-tricks notability

Hi, Sorry if this has been asked already... what lists of hat-tricks are notable? I saw here that some leagues and some national teams have pages for them, but not all. Is this notability issue or just no one got around to creating the rest? --SuperJew (talk) 12:07, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

The latter, I suspect -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:42, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
On a related note, I note that the List of TT Pro League hat-tricks article repeatedly uses the team "beaver-trick" to refer to scoring four goals in a game? Is that really a thing? I have genuinely never heard that term in my life. Maybe it's Caribbean-specific......? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:44, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
It's a cricket term, see here and here - never come across it in a football context before. GiantSnowman 13:47, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
May be the term is shared between cricket and football in Caribbean? If there is no news article to use the term in football, better chop the term in List of TT Pro League hat-tricks. Matthew hk (talk) 13:49, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
That's more like a disambiguation page than a list. Govvy (talk) 14:05, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
@Govvy: You mean the page I linked? It's a list of lists. I linked it as it shows easily what there is (instead of linking 2 categories now). --SuperJew (talk) 17:48, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
Never heard of a beaver trick in football or cricket to be honest... Joseph2302 (talk) 15:14, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

2018–19 Chelsea F.C. season

I have to say, this season page is a perfect example of over use of primary sourcing, should use it as an example of what not to do!! Govvy (talk) 14:08, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

I'm also glad it tells us who the assistant fitness coaches are (and where they are from) too. Spike 'em (talk) 15:34, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
There is nothing wrong with using primary sources for facts where those facts are readily available, accessible, and transparent with no requirement for interpretation, assessment etc. The significant failing of the article is in the opening paragraph failing to use reliable secondary sources to indicate notability, and to source the subsequent opening paragraph, kits etc and the absence of any sourcing for specific sections. While secondary sources could be used for transfers etc, they are not critical, and wouldn't even be available for some of the information such as the Academy (which probably isn't particularly notable for inclusion).
However, a much bigger issue is that I doubt that Chelsea's website actually does provide the detailed breakdown that is being claimed without some serious digging for things like the main squad, appearances, start and end time of contracts etc which is synthesis. Same with wins / draws / losses, beyond possibly having an article each week it is unlikely a primary source would break down the individual competition WDL For and Against in quite such a way.
In short the article has issues, including a dependency on transient squad data that will likely be deleted by Chelsea when a player departs, or the season ends. This means fidelity of the article year on year will begin to degrade. Koncorde (talk) 16:44, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
There isn't anything wrong with primary sources, but many secondary sources should be available. It's a bit ridiculous as it stands and likely violates WP:SYNTH. SportingFlyer T·C 04:57, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
The primary sources for contracts/transfers etc. is fine. Of greater concern is the mound of unreferenced stats. GiantSnowman 08:49, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

GK goals conceded in infobox?

I'm sure this has already been discussed, but is there any specific reason to why we don't add the goals a goalkeeper has conceded in his infobox? The Italian wiki already does this (e.g. Rogério Ceni) and I think it would be a good addition to the article. What do you think?

Also, slightly related to this, in case we don't know the appearances or goals scored (conceded in the GK's case) what should be put? A "–", "?" or just leave it blank? Nehme1499 (talk) 19:00, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Nope and leave it blank. Kante4 (talk) 19:07, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
Because stats aren't readily available. Leave it as 'goals scored' like all outfield players. GiantSnowman 19:36, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
Agree with GS. Stats aren't generally available for this, so would lead to lots of original research. Also, these lot would end up with pretty cluttered infoboxes. Regarding the other question, yes, leave them blank. Nzd (talk) 19:52, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
Ok thanks. Also, if we know that a player has played/scored AT LEAST a certain amount should we add a "+"? E.g. we know that a player has scored at least 19 goals for team X, should I put 19+? Nehme1499 (talk) 21:04, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
I do that sometimes, yes. GiantSnowman 08:48, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Bits and pieces

1 - after seeing that in Mauro Eustáquio and José Bosingwa, the following question arises: shouldn't we have just one "People from X" (or "Sportspeople from") category? Is it customary to have two in some cases (in which, then)? I'd go always with the place where the subject was born (not raised, as it seems to be case here?).

2 - Phil Jones (and others, I thus assume): is a fourth place at the World Cup (or a similar competition) an honour? Never knew that, sincerely.

Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 13:04, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

1) - where do sources say they are from? Birth place is not sufficient
2) - no, it's not an honour. GiantSnowman 13:05, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
I agree 100% that what is essentially "losing semi-finalist" is not an honour -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:09, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

I'm sorry GS, I don't follow, birth place is not sufficient for what? From where I come from, both Mr. Eustáquio and Mr. Bosingwa have comprehensive sources for both "departments", where they were born (as well as the descent) and where they were raised --Quite A Character (talk) 13:34, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Birth place is not sufficient to say somebody is from there, for the purposes of those categories. Being born in London does not mean they are 'from' London, for example. Lots of smaller towns and villages in the UK don't have maternity hospitals, so many people are born in one location but grow up somewhere entirely different. GiantSnowman 14:56, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
Realistically all such categories should probably have been named "People born in [place]" rather than the ill-defined "from", but I somehow doubt anyone would be prepared to co-ordinate that sort of change..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:02, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
1, The documentation states that place of birth is not necessarily the defining attribute. I don't see anything wrong with adding multiple categories if the subject has notable associations with more than one place. It seems fairly common practice and I've done it myself.
2, No, not an honour. This was discussed previously. Nzd (talk) 16:40, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
@PeeJay2K3:... GiantSnowman 17:05, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
I would rather say POB cat is something trivial. It may be not that trivial if a news article claimed that he was raised in city A and played for team from that city until joining professional club B. Footballers are notable for their nationality and then member of clubs B, C, D, E, F, and only some of them notable for the POB. But it is a wide spread practice (not only in footballer article) to add people to People from foo cat even POB was routine mentioned in the article. Matthew hk (talk) 19:53, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Disambiguation query

An article on David Johnson (soccer) has recently appeared. Given we already have some articles on other David Johnsons who were footballers (David Johnson (footballer, born 1976) and David Johnson (footballer, born 1951)), does this disambiguation work? If not, would David Johnson (footballer, born 1984) be appropriate given that they're American, or should it be David Johnson (soccer player, born 1984). Number 57 22:12, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

I would say the second option. Crowsus (talk) 22:49, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
The latter. "David Johnson (soccer)" should point to the dab page as an R from incomplete disambiguation. "David Johnson (footballer, born 1984)" can also be a redirect as an R from other disambiguation. —Xezbeth (talk) 09:01, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
Keep at David Johnson (soccer) and turn David Johnson (footballer, born 1984) into a redirect. GiantSnowman 09:03, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
Whilst we are discussing the article, are reserve team appearances really worthy of note in the infobox / career stats? Spike 'em (talk) 11:55, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
If the reserve team plays in the same pyramid as senior teams (like in Spain, France, Germany etc.) then yes. If not then no. GiantSnowman 12:01, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
They are listed as being in a reserve league, so I'll remove them (and also the source used is not reliable, given it says this David Johnson played 1 game for Liverpool before he was born) Spike 'em (talk) 12:03, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
Some MLS teams' reserves do play in the senior pyramid (see New York Red Bulls II), so those kind of stats should stay. Simply playing in the reserve league is not sufficient. GiantSnowman 12:10, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

YouTube as a source

Hi, I was thinking if I could use a YouTube video to source a claim. For example, if I say that a goal has been incorrectly considered offside, and the video clearly shows the goal being onside (also showing the still-image of the offside line and everything), can I use it as a source? I'm asking about this specific situation since a goal being on/offside is (usually) a yes or no answer (it's not subjective, unlike fouls or yellow cards). Otherwise, can I take a snapshot of the still-image, upload it, and use that as a source? What's your opinion on this? Nehme1499 (talk) 23:39, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

YouTube can be dodgy as a source because you have to make sure a video clip doesn't breach copyright. I don't think it's a good idea to use YouTube as a source. Govvy (talk) 00:01, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
To be honest, this sounds like original research. If a secondary source talks about it being onside/offside, I would use that. SportingFlyer T·C 00:10, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
What about using it to source something simpler, like "In the 57th minute, he scored..." if the video has a timestamp on the top left corner. Would that still count as OR? Nehme1499 (talk) 00:29, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
I would seriously suggest not using video as evidence for anything other than itself. The 57th minute should be sourced to a reliable source which itself may be dependent upon analysis of the video, but for you to do it would be OR. Koncorde (talk) 00:36, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
Ok I see, thanks. Nehme1499 (talk) 00:40, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
Please see WP:YOUTUBE. GiantSnowman 09:04, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Portsmouth F.C. again

Can someone sort this IP, guy out, he has a WP:OWN complex over the article. I've been reverted so many times for trying to fix the article it's nuts. Govvy (talk) 20:31, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

The guy wrote; It was I who put all these kit designs here in the first place, they have been here for many months. Please stop interfering and being pedantic, you contribute nothing, but you frequently interfere. You are not even a Portsmouth FC fan, unlike me.
It's strange that I get a comment like that as my school sports teacher played for Brighton and Portsmouth and he took us to games at both clubs, so I've always had heart for Portsmouth FC, not only that, a few of the Spurs players I have met in my time have gone to Pompy and he thinks I don't support them! Govvy (talk) 20:52, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Caretaker manager notability question

I was trying to clean up Jesper Fredberg, and realized the article's sourcing didn't support the claim that he had worked as a manager in a fully-pro league (except for a stint as caretaker manager in the Cypriot top flight). He was the club's academy coach and became the caretaker manager after the senior side's regular manager was removed with 8 matches remaining in the 2017–18 season. Do we treat a caretaker in the same manner as a regularly-appointed manager? (I think it's possible the article can satisfy our notability requirements in some other way - it claims he played for AGF, and otherwise there could be enough sourcing to satisfy WP:GNG, but I wanted to understand what the group thinks about caretakers.) Jogurney (talk) 20:59, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, WP:NFOOTY counts for managers as well as players, so caretaker managers would qualify if they've managed at least one match between two fully-pro teams (even though that qualifies people like this geezer). Nzd (talk) 23:26, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
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