Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  Policy   Technical   Proposals   Idea lab   Miscellaneous  
The technical section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Wikipedia. Bug reports and feature requests should be made in Phabricator (see how to report a bug). Bugs with security implications should be reported differently (see how to report security bugs).

Newcomers to the technical village pump are encouraged to read these guidelines prior to posting here. Questions about MediaWiki in general should be posted at the MediaWiki support desk.

« Older discussions, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 142, 143, 144, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150, 151, 152, 153, 154
Centralized discussion
Proposals: policy other Discussions Ideas

For a listing of ongoing discussions, see the dashboard.


API query to determine page protections

I need to determine the edit/move protections on a page via the API (e.g., office, full, semi, pending-changes, etc).

It is not easy to do via category memberships. For example, although there is a top-level "Category:Wikipedia semi-protected pages", beneath that there is also a "Category:Wikipedia_indefinitely_semi-protected_pages" and many other variations. When recursing through to find sub-categories, you quickly encounter sub-categories that contain pages that aren't under protection, and a greater depth, almost listing every category on the encyclopedia.

I haven't been able to find an efficient way to do this on a per-page basis. Could I download the entire list of protected pages from the "Special:" function? Probably, but that seems like overkill for a quick task. West.andrew.g (talk) 02:21, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

mw:API:Info#inprop=protection. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:44, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
Yes, the API is probably the best route. Membership of categories like Category:Wikipedia semi-protected pages does not necessarily mean that all the pages in that category are semi-protected, nor that all semi-protected pages are in that category. The category is merely a reflection of the templates on the page such as {{pp-semi}}. For example, User:Redrose64/Sandbox12 is semi-protected until 09:28, 7 May 2017 (UTC), but is not in any "protected pages" cats. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 09:30, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Watchlist screwy

Since the DB maintenance just a moment ago, my watchlist is very screwy. I'm seeing entries repeated 3 times, and in one instance an entry made 8 times for the same edit. What's going on?—CYBERPOWER (Chat) 14:59, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

This was already reported on IRC, although I don't know whether there's already a task about it, but I do know Ops are aware. While the servers are back up, there's still work to do. Watch this space for updates. Thank you. Elitre (WMF) (talk) 15:04, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
It would be helpful if you were to list what watchlist-related settings you have set and whether turning any of them on/off makes a difference. BJorsch (WMF) (talk) 15:05, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
Same thing for contrib lists. --NeilN talk to me 15:09, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
Now at If anyone can reproduce, please say what your config is? Elitre (WMF) (talk) 15:10, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
See my contrib list here for edits made before today's test. --NeilN talk to me 15:16, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
In triplicate sounds like the issues reported when ORES was initially deployed as a beta feature. --Izno (talk) 15:23, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
Yep, turning ORES off did the trick for me MusikAnimal talk 15:27, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
What is ORES?—CYBERPOWER (Chat) 15:29, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
@Cyberpower678: Last option in "beta features" --NeilN talk to me 15:33, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
Same here for contrib list. --NeilN talk to me 15:31, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
m:ORES. It's a Beta Feature here ATM. Turning it on allowed me to reproduce, and people involved in that project are on this already. Thanks all. Elitre (WMF) (talk) 15:33, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
I refer the hon. member to the answer that I was given some weeks ago. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:19, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

As can be seen a few sections above this, ORES will ceaes to be a beta and become enabled by default on 24 April. I suppose this won't happen if the above watchlist problem with ORES is somewhat common? Fram (talk) 09:00, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Ops is sorting out the problem, and as it's both temporary, partial (only four wikis were affected), and specific to something about how the m:Tech/Server switch 2017 was performed, I believe that there will be no long-term effect on the Ores project. In the short-term, the team will presumably make their decision after Ops has decided what caused the problem and how likely their solutions are to prevent this from happening again during the switch back to the primary servers on 3 May. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:42, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
Duplicates have been removed. The ORES deployment by default is happening today. The code has been reviewed and we don't expect duplicates on the watchlists. Trizek (WMF) (talk) 13:41, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Chronological order of archive entries

Why aren't archive entries sorted chronologically? Shouldn't that be improved?--Hubon (talk) 20:59, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Please clarify with an example what you refer to. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:07, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
TO the best of my knowledge, they are sorted chronologically based on archive time. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 03:20, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
@Hubon: Assuming that you refer to archives created by bots such as ClueBot III (talk · contribs) and lowercase sigmabot III (talk · contribs), the bot goes through all of the threads that are on the original talk page, selects those which meet the criteria for archiving (such as time elapsed since last post), copies those threads to the bottom of the archive page in the same order, and then deletes them from the original.
Let's assume that a talk page has an archive with three threads (A B D) and the original talk page still has seven threads (C E F G H I J). Of those, three of them (C E H) are eligible for archiving, so after the bot has visited, the archive will end up with six threads (A B D C E H in that order), and the original page will have four (F G I J). Later on, thread K is created on the original talk page and thread F becomes eligible for archiving; so after the bot has again visited, we now have the the archive with seven threads (A B D C E H F), and the original page with four (G I J K). It might be that thread C was created before thread D, and that that thread F was created before thread H, but archiving bots always add at the bottom, they don't insert into chronological order. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 11:31, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
עוד מישהו, User:Redrose64: Excuse me, I was [very] imprecise: Of course, I only meant the order of search results when using the seach box!!! Sorry once again for this confusion! Greetings--Hubon (talk) 19:45, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
PS: @עוד מישהו, User:Redrose64: Thus, I would still like to repeat my question with reference to this clarification. Best--Hubon (talk) 00:25, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Given archives are (approximately:) in chronological order and their pagenames tell the order, a more general feature (and more widely useful) that would solve it is "have search results be sortable by name". DMacks (talk) 01:29, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
There was a discussion about the modified question which could probably be found by searching the archives for "prefer-recent". An example of searching the ANI archives for "Jimbo" with most-recent first is:
Jimbo prefer-recent:1,1 prefix:Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive
That does not work in an ideal manner as no data is stored regarding when a particular mention of Jimbo occurred. The "when" might be inferred from a signature timestamp, but there is no indexed database entry with the information. However, it worked pretty well the once or twice I've tried it. Johnuniq (talk) 10:33, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
@DMacks & Johnuniq: Hm, I still do not quite get why it is not possible to create a feature that makes the search function arrange search results by the page name of the respective archive page. I guess, that would be basically more reasonable and feasible than having them sorted by timestamps etc.--Hubon (talk) 14:04, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Listeria bot again

Listeria bot adding non-free files to pages in the Wikipedia namespace was previously discussed at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 154#ListeriaBot adding non-free images to Wikipedia namespace page. For some reason the bot is adding File:Lyla.jpg (non-free cover art for an Oasis album) to entries for Lyla Lin in Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by nationality/Taiwan and Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Models. The edit sum left each time was "Wikidata list update". Perhaps the bot is actually doing what it's supposed to do and the problem is with the Wikidata? -- Marchjuly (talk) 04:55, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

There is a non-free file Lyla.jpg on enwiki, and a (completely different) free file Lyla.jpg on commons. Wikidata links to the latter, but on enwiki the local file automatically gets precedence. Solutions may include renaming either of the files, having Listeriabot use the full url for the image, or changing listeriabot to check whether a local file with that name exists, and in that case not including the file. Fram (talk) 07:02, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for that bit of info Fram. File:Lyla.jpg appears to have been uploaded more than 10 years before c:File:Lyla.jpg, so I'm not sure if that matters when it comes to requesting a file name change. - Marchjuly (talk) 07:33, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
I will have fixed the issue shortly--the Commons file is likely to be a copy-vio. Only upload, used UploadWizard, and professional quality, so it should be deleted shortly. In the meantime, perhaps the en.WP version of the file should have a longer name. --Izno (talk) 12:36, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Same thing is happening with File:Olga Tufnell.jpg and User:Stinglehammer/Born in Edinburgh working in the field of science. -- Marchjuly (talk) 09:49, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

This looks like a case of someone using a non-free file locally without an appropriate rationale given that the Commons file appears to be free. Regardless, one or both images should be moved, which will take care of the problem in the short term. --Izno (talk) 12:40, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for that info Izno. c:File:Olga Tufnell.jpg and File:Olga Tufnell.jpg are named the same, but are different images. If the Commons licensing is correct and it is an image of the same Olga Tufnell, the non-free should be deleted as replaceable fair use per WP:NFCC#1, unless it can be converted to PD or a free license for some reason. -- Marchjuly (talk) 14:54, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
The easy fix for such problems is to follow the steps on Template:ShadowsCommons and resolving them, seems like. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 22:59, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for that info Jo-Jo Eumerus. -- Marchjuly (talk) 08:20, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
I've marked the local Olga file for deletion as replaceable non-free, unless URAA issues come up. The album cover has been renamed due to the vague name, the Commons file is up for deletion. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 12:15, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Bell Gardens, California

At Bell Gardens, California#Latino community, the full citation for the source appears at the bottom of the template. Is there a way to have the citation appear in the reference section instead? Thank you! Magnolia677 (talk) 12:27, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

@Magnolia677: Yes, take the reflist out of Template:10 Latino neighborhoods in Los Angeles County. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 23:14, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
@Redrose64: Will the source then show up in the reference list at the bottom of the article? Thank you. Magnolia677 (talk) 23:45, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
You would need to ensure that the main article includes a reflist with the appropriate group parameter, in this case {{reflist|group=§}} --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 23:57, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
Would you be kind enough to make this edit? I'm probably going to mess it up. Thank you again. Magnolia677 (talk) 00:00, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
We'd have to do the same at all these articles if an error message is to be avoided. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 08:10, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Gallery Issue

For some odd reason, while editing Connecticut, and inserting a gallery, the images kept increasing in size while using the image search mode. I'm currently using Google Chrome v. 58. —JJBers 17:29, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Which editing environment were you using? There's been some work done on VisualEditor's gallery tool recently, but I don't know if any of it has been deployed yet. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 07:34, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
@Whatamidoing (WMF): I was using the VisualEditor at the time. —JJBers 15:21, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
That looks like fun. Please read phab: T163727 and make sure that the bug I found is the one that you found. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:39, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

What problems occur by not closing bold or italic markup?

We seem to have several editors working on tennis articles who 100% refuse to include closing bold and italic markup. Tennis Project has been asked by some outside the project why we allow this to go on against wikipedia protocol. Our answer is we try to fix it but thousands of articles in the past were done this way and there appears to be no bot around that can handle it. Plus no matter how many warnings we give editors to stop creating new articles that are against protocol, pages like 1985 NCAA Division I Men's Tennis Championships keep getting created left and right. My two questions here are 1) is there any quick fix that can be done to add the closing markup since right now it's either remove it all or add 50–100 closings per article manually. And 2) I know unclosed markup seems to mess up the syntax highlighting provided by Remember the dot's Syntax highlighter gadget. Are there other gadgets/bots/apps that get butchered because of this sloppy coding? Something tangible I can use as an argument against non-closed bold/italic quote markup? Thanks. Fyunck(click) (talk) 23:43, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

When bold/italic markup is not closed, the syntax highlighter marks the rest of the article (usually; sometimes other strange things happen) as bold or italic. This makes it difficult or impossible to locate other syntax problems. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:24, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
That approach may break when mw:Parsing/Replacing Tidy happens (probably later this year). Parsoid (and therefore VisualEditor) may have difficulty processing those pages. I can check with the Parsing team if you'd like to know whether they're certain about whether this kind of correction will become absolutely necessary (as opposed to merely a good idea, which it already is).
I don't really know why someone would want to use ambiguous markup. Excuses along the lines of "saving disk space" are incorrect (Claimed savings: maybe 500 bytes each in six revisions [for the article I checked]. Cost: 18,000 bytes when a corrected revision was created. Net loss in disk space caused by this strategy: 15,000 bytes). Even if it were true that this strategy saved disk space, WP:PERF is not something that editors need to worry about – especially with hard drives running somewhere around two cents per gigabyte. We're talking about potentially saving US $0.000006 worth of hard drive space for that article. Ops' budget can handle that. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 07:56, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
@Whatamidoing (WMF): Well it certainly is easier to write out '''jumpingjackflash than '''jumpingjackflash''', especially when you do it 50x in a single article and it works. That's the excuse along with the fact that countless articles were done that way in the past and they often copy the coding for new articles. It's low priority for us to fix those with our minimal manpower and no bot or 2–3 clicks to fix 50 errors. Maybe if from this moment every single article was fixed we'd be able to get a handle on new creations. But with that not likely to happen I thought maybe someone here would know of some tangible reasons (like multiple broken bots) so I could give good reasons why they shouldn't do it rather than "it's a good idea." So if you could please check with the parsing team. Fyunck(click) (talk) 08:14, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
The HTML spec has a number of closing tags that are treated as optional; as far as I am aware, all of these are for certain of the block-level elements (such as <li>, <p> and <td>), whereas the closing tag is mandatory for many block-level elements and all of the inline elements. However, an omitted closing tag of an inline element is often without serious consequence (unlike an omitted </table>, for instance) - but omitting the closing markup does depend on a feature found in most web browsers: that when a block-level element is closed (explicitly or implicitly), any open inline elements will be implicitly closed if they were opened within that block-level element but not explicitly closed. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 08:46, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
Wikipedia's HTML parser automatically converts <br> and similar to <br />. I would be surprised if it didn't also add </b> and </i> where necessary. DaßWölf 20:12, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
That's Tidy, and as noted above, Tidy is not going to be around much longer. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 23:06, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
I see, thanks for the heads up. Sadly, I've done this myself on occasion to spare my fingers before I learned to use regex :( DaßWölf 00:34, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

The problem is that you may end up making the whole article text bold or italic. A bigger problem is that someone else may end up adding more markup somewhere else in the page that may possibly make it render incorrectly. As far as the problem is concerned, short of adding abuse filter, changing wikitext design or the developers adding some tool to forcibly make such editors only use visual editor, there is nothing else that can be done. This is because while the markup may seem incorrect the preview shows something sensible due to behind the scene cleanup. This is a bit like asking someone to write an equation that sums up to two, someone could easily write -987654321 + 987654323 = 2. They may also write it in a infinite number of ways that may potentially annoy people who read it, but is quite correct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 08:42, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Ombox-like formatting

Hey guys, could you please take a quick look of the template in my sandbox] and fix the formatting so that a border or a box appears that the text should be in (if you can)? Just like template:ombox. Thanks!—‎Lost Whispers talk 17:46, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Can your explain what the problem is? Ruslik_Zero 20:13, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
@Lost Whispers: On my talk page you pointed me to a page on the Arabic Wikipedia. Can you clarify which project you are writing the template for? -- John of Reading (talk) 20:20, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
Ruslik0 the template you see on my sandbox should appear like this one here, but it lost the borders and the box in general. What can we do to make the box reappear again? And @John of Reading:, we are trying to use the template to address that an article is featured providing the date in which it was featured on and the version (ID) which made it featured. Currently we are using this format to make that box-shape which the template could provide much more easily:
<div class="plainlinks" style="
background-color: {{{bgcolor|#f9f9f9}}};
{{#if:{{{width|}}}|width:1000px {{{width}}};}}
border: 1px solid #a4a4a4;
{{#if:{{{border-color|}}}|border-color: {{{border-color}}};}}
{{#if:{{{color|}}}|color: {{{color}}};}}
font-weight: ; 
{{#if:{{{margin|}}}  | margin:  {{{margin}}};  | margin: 1.1em 0 1em;}}
{{#if:{{{padding|}}} | padding: {{{padding}}}; | padding: .2em 1em;}}
vertical-align: middle; 
clear: both;
{{#if:{{{text-align|}}} | text-align: {{{text-align}}}; | text-align: center;}}
">    [[Image:Symbol star gold.svg|25px]] ئەم وتارە بووە بە [[ویکیپیدیا:وتارە ھەڵبژێردراوەکان|وتارێکی ھەڵبژێردراو]] لەسەر [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|oldid={{{وەشان|}}} }} وەشانی {{{ڕێکەوت|}}}] ([{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|oldid={{{وەشان}}}&diff=cur}} بەراوردی بکە بە ئێستا]). بۆ زیاتر سەیری {{#ifexist:{{TALKPAGENAME}}|[[{{TALKPAGENAME}}|پەڕەی لێدوان]] و}} [[ویکیپیدیا:پاڵاوتنی وتاری ھەڵبژێردراو/{{PAGENAME}}|پاڵاوتنەکەی]] بکە.{{نیشانەی وتاری ھەڵبژێردراو}}</span></div><noinclude>
But as you can see in the end of this article for example you can see that it's not even with the other templates, because the current format is not omboxed like, so it kind of messes up the page. (I hope I'm making my point)—‎Lost Whispers talk 20:42, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
Our ombox styling is specific to tables, and your template uses a div (and none of the other structure required by the mbox-family). Your template in it's current form can thus not use ombox-styling on English Wikipedia. BTW. I do see some problems with navboxes on ar.wp in the page you link to. It seems ar.wp navboxes apply larger border areas, without accounting for the fact that those will be 'outside' of the reserved area of 100%. This is also why on the left side of the page, elements do not line up. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 12:24, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

An (impossible??) reuse of user identity seems to have occurred.

I'm not sure that this is the right place to put this notice. However, I'm not suspecting any misbehaviour from any user, only an inconsistency either in how our software worked, or in documentation. If this is not the correct place for reporting this, please suggest a better place!

Something seems to have happened that I believed was impossible: A new user seems to have registered under an old former username, without administrator's assistance.

Seemingly, a user registered on enwp as User:Quantumleap in 2006, but had this switched to User:Laminitania in 2014. That indeed Quantumleap was the old name can be seen e. g. from the user page redir and the user page history, and from signatures in and references to the old name e. g. here, but not from the enwp user logs. However, the change is documented in the global user name changes log. This user seems to be primarily active in eswp, and has not edited in enwp since 2012.

Seemingly, another user registered in enwp as User:Quantumleap in February 2017. This seems to be a different person (mainly editing about quantum computer technology issues and similar stuff). I found no corresponding item in the archives of WP:USURP. This leads to confusing entries in article history items, as e. g. here. Note, that clicking on the user name or "talk" by means of redirs leads to Laminitania, while clicking the "contrib" leads to these of the present user Quantumleap.

I would like to alert the present user Quantumleap on article changes I plan to do; but this state of matter makes this hard to do on their talk page. (Besides, the new user received no Welcome message.) JoergenB (talk) 19:48, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Why impossible? As no user Quantumleap existed after the rename anybody could create an account Quantumleap. Ruslik_Zero 20:11, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
We've had previous cases of new accounts "hijacking" old user names - including a specific troll who got 2 olds user names of the account now called Certified Gangsta. There is nothing technically problematic here - you get your account renamed, the old name can be reused by anyone. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 21:13, 22 April 2017 (UTC) עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 21:13, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
OK, I see that I have misunderstood what I have seen. Probably, in the cases I saw, the users have followed the WP:RENAME advice, and re-created a "sockpuppet" user under the old user name. (I however think that this is badly and inconsistently documented. WP:RENAME contains a link guard against impersonation to WP:Sock puppetry#Legitimate uses, but that section seems not to contain anything indicating that this indeed would be a legitimate use of sock puppetry.)
So, what should I do with the redir User talk:Quantumleap? Moreover, if I ping the user, will Quantumleap or Laminitania be notified? JoergenB (talk) 05:25, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
@JoergenB: The userpage redirect shouldn't have any effect on pinging Quantumleap. You should probably replace the talk page redirect (edit the page) with
{{for|the talk page of the user formerly named Quantumleap|User talk:Laminitania}}
and then add a section with whatever. You could add {{talk header}} after the hatnote as well. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
07:37, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
OK. Thanks! JoergenB (talk) 11:20, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Inconsistent line spacing between list levels

I've noticed that spacing between lines in multi-level lists is inconsistent across browsers/devices. For example, let's take the following list:

Markup Renders as
* coffee
* tea
** oolong
** matcha
* eau de vie
  • coffee
  • tea
    • oolong
    • matcha
  • eau de vie

When I view this on Windows PCs using either Chrome or Edge as the browser, the line spacing between 'tea' and 'oolong' is noticeably greater than the spacing between any other lines. When I view this on Android mobile devices using either Chrome or Silk as the browser, the line spacing between 'tea' and 'oolong' is noticeably less than the spacing between other lines. I tested this issue using raw HTML markup in place of the * wiki markup, and there was no change. Is this something that could be fixed on Wikipedia's end, or would this need to be solved by OS and/or browser developers? —jameslucas (" " / +) 03:12, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Is this strictly about sublists, or is it about the start of any list vs the preceding content? For example, how does this look:
Markup Renders as
* coffee
* tea


  • coffee
  • tea
for spacing between "Drinks:" and the first list item vs spacing between the two list items? DMacks (talk) 03:37, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
In the case of a list item following a non-list item, the line spacing is greater both on PC and on Android mobile (although not by the same ratios). I'd say that's roughly as it should be. —jameslucas (" " / +) 03:50, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
The relevant CSS rule seems to be
.mw-content-ltr ul,
.mw-content-rtl .mw-content-ltr ul {
  margin: 0.3em 0 0 1.6em;
  padding: 0;
with the gap in question being that 0.3em. I don't know where it's set: it's not in our local MediaWiki:Common.css. We can't simply remove that declaration, since the rule above supersedes this rule:
ul {
  list-style-type: square;
  margin: 0.3em 0 0 1.6em;
  padding: 0;
which is set at an earlier stage - again, origin unknown. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 08:32, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
I'm not knowledgable enough to speculate on where that CSS is coming from, but I was able override it, and that improved things greatly when viewed on PC. For anyone wishing to do the same, vist your CSS and paste the following code [updated to reflect Redrose64's suggestions below —16:39, 24 April 2017 (UTC)]:
.mw-content-ltr ul,
.mw-content-rtl .mw-content-ltr ul {
  margin-top: 0;
Thanks, Red! —jameslucas (" " / +) 13:05, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
You don't need to re-specify any declaration where the value is unchanged, so you can omit padding: 0; - and you can also replace the declaration margin: 0 0 0 1.6em; with margin-top: 0; --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:52, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
Good call. (I didn't know about the margin-top property.) Is it technically possible to apply this universally to the standard CSS for Wikipedia? And would that be a good idea? I'm having trouble imagining why the 1.6 0.3 em margin would be good in any instance. It strikes me as an accident, a bad choice, or a really dirty hack to address some ancient browser. —jameslucas (" " / +) 16:39, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
margin-top is one of the original CSS 1 properties; and so was automatically carried over into CSS 2 and the working draft for CSS 3 (which hasn't seen any progress in almost ten years). All modern browsers support CSS 2 in its entirety; many also support one or more of the CSS 3 modules as well. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:25, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
I guess that shows how shaky my CSS knowledge is. But my question was more about Wikipedia than the specific formatting of the code: Is there a reason not to change this attribute for the entire site (as opposed to me fixing it only for myself)? Is there any justification (technical or otherwise) not to eradicate that 1.6 0.3 em margin for everyone? —jameslucas (" " / +) 18:54, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
The 1.6em margin is the left one, we'll want to keep that. ;) The 0.3em top margin seems to date back to the beginning of the Monobook skin if not earlier, I have no idea why it's there. Anomie 12:08, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
Right you are: the 0.3 margin is the one I meant (amended above). Is there any process we/I can initiate to have it removed (or considered for removal)? —jameslucas (" " / +) 13:20, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
Consensus here is a good start. Then MediaWiki talk:Common.css to override it locally and/or file a task in Phabricator to request it be changed in MediaWiki. Anomie 18:45, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────It looks like there's a decade of archived conversations at MediaWiki talk:Common.css; I'll do a little skimming to see how this topic has been discussed in the past. In the meantime, I appreciate the guidance and welcome further ideas, comments, and suggestions. I realize that none of this addresses the appearance in mobile browsers, but it'd be great to at least solve this for desktops. —jameslucas (" " / +) 22:04, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

MTC! v1.0.0

I just released a new version of my move to Commons tool, MTC!. I'm looking for a few willing volunteers to try it out and provide some feedback :) Thanks, FASTILY 03:40, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

@Fastily: It works quite well, especially the filtering of non-free images. It would be nice if categories and renames could be added in the UI though. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
09:48, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
Also, is there a way to move files from wikis other than enwiki? Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
09:59, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
Hi Jc86035, thanks for the feedback! I'm currently exploring a sane way to add categories to transferred files, if you have any suggestions, please feel free to share them :) No immediate plans to expand the tool beyond enwp just yet. I want to make the tool as stable and feature-complete as possible before adding other Wikis. Best, FASTILY 22:53, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
I'm not really too interested in maintaining WP:FTCG anymore, so if you'd like to steal ideas or code (the code is in C#, which is similar enough to Java, and in the public domain) you are most welcome. (To be clear, I don't intend to abandon FtCG, but nor do I plan to add new features, particularly since Fastily's new tool seems to have gained a lot more traction than FtCG.) — This, that and the other (talk) 08:50, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
Hi TTO, thanks for the offer! I'll have a look. Cheers, FASTILY 22:53, 24 April 2017 (UTC)’s server DNS address could not be found.

Anyone else getting this message? I was trying to use Wikiblame. Doug Weller talk 10:18, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Working now. Doug Weller talk 11:08, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Parameter default

Suppose these three pages contain the following:

Contents of Article1
Contents of Template:Template1
Contents of Template:Template2

How can these templates be reworked into a module? Iceblock (talk) 13:10, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Why? That template code is so simple that converting it to a module seems rather overkill. Perhaps it is better to merge the content of Template2 into Template1? Or perhaps there is more here that you are not saying? How about a real-life example of what you want to do?
Trappist the monk (talk) 14:06, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
The task is to make a navbox that can accept both English and Norwegian parameter names for use on the Norwegian Wikipedia. Example:
and so on
Iceblock (talk) 14:20, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
You know that has no:Modul:Navbox? Can't you use that?
Trappist the monk (talk) 14:47, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
Currently, no:Template:Navbox does not use no:Modul:Navbox. Norwegian parameter names are not supported by the current no:Modul:Navbox. The template uses a core template, as indicated above, to accept English and Norwegian parameter names. There exist navigational templates with Norwegian parameter names on, and also templates with English parameter names. Iceblock (talk) 15:49, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
Perhaps it should. no:Modul:Navbox uses no:Modul:Arguments which has some sort of support for translation, though that may have been superseded by support in MediaWiki. It would seem to me that it is better to use a translation mechanism that has support MediaWiki-wide (if it is or soon will be available – documentation is sorely lacking) than to hack a fix to the old-form template. See Module talk:Arguments#Document argument translation system for editors who appear to be working on translation support.
Trappist the monk (talk) 16:29, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
Thanks a lot! Iceblock (talk) 16:56, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Populating Category:Infobox templates with sandbox pages of certain infobox templates

Hi, There are a number of infobox template sandbox pages that are populating Category:Infobox templates. For example, Template:Infobox GB station/sandbox and Template:Infobox factory/sandbox. I tried this edit on the /doc page of Infobox factory, adding Template:sandbox other, but it did not solve the problem. Could someone check if there were any changes to a template that these infobox templates are calling on? Thanks, Funandtrvl (talk) 18:57, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

It's been added from Template:UF-hcard-geo, so you'll need to make the change in there. -- WOSlinker (talk) 14:58, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

How can I edit the subtitle used in the official (Android) mobile app?

For many articles, there is a subtitle used in the official Wikipedia app that serves as a summary/disambiguation, and shows up in search results and under the title on the article itself. For example, searching for "Test" shows (with the subtitle indicated in brackets here) "Test [Wikipedia disambiguation page]", "Testosterone [Chemical compound]", "Test (assessment) [Procedure for measuring a subject's ability; assessment intended to measure a test-taker's knowledge, skill, aptitude, physical fitness, or classification in many other topuics (e.g., beliefs)]", and "Test-driven development []", among others.

Where do these subtitles (for lack of a better term) come from? They don't seem to be pulled directly from anywhere in the page itself, I couldn't find a way to edit them in the app, and I've tried to read up on the mobile app pages to no avail. I ask because the subtitle for Nichijou is awkwardly phrased and seems to be missing a word or two, as seen in my screenshot to the right.

How can I edit this subtitle, or request it be edited? --The Human Spellchecker (talk) 19:04, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

@Spellcheck: it is coming from Wikidata, in this case from wikidata:Q483120 where you may edit it. — xaosflux Talk 19:07, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
You can only edit it on what's rapidly becoming my least favorite website, Wikidata; the app pulls the data direct from there so edits made on Wikipedia can't affect it and changes made to the wording don't show up in Wikipedia watchlists. ‑ Iridescent 19:08, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
@Iridescent: You should be able to see these type of changes on your watchlist, check if you have "Hide Wikidata" selected. — xaosflux Talk 19:33, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
That absolutely floods your watchlist with unhelpful cruft like D University Hospital Lewisham (Q14956783); 11:53 . . Wittylama (talk contribs) (‎Created claim: Property:P3794: organisation/lewisham_hospital, #mix'n'match) and D TeachText (Q7691157); 01:15 . . Infovarius (talk contribs) (‎Removed claim: Property:P31: Q7397, #petscan). It's not realistically feasible to have it enabled if you have more than a few pages on your watchlist, and since nobody on WD appears to grasp the concept of "meaningful edit summary" you need to be willing to manually check every change you see for it to be worthwhile enabling it. ‑ Iridescent 19:38, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
Yes that is a mess, please note - I don't think the "meaningful edit summary" problem from wikidata is an editor problem, the interface does not provide an opportunity to use edit summaries for (main) data items. — xaosflux Talk 19:42, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
phab:T43490 discussed this, but apparently it was closed without being actually completed. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 11:27, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
  • See also Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)/Archive_138#Rfc:_Remove_description_taken_from_Wikidata_from_mobile_view_of_en-WP, and the note from @Quiddity (WMF):. Quiddity, in regards to the removal: what is the phab ticket number that can be used to track this? — xaosflux Talk 19:12, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
    Perhaps @OVasileva (WMF): knows? — xaosflux Talk 19:17, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
    When I look at Nichijou in mobile view, I do not see a subtitle. When I type "Nichijou" in the mobile search box at the top of a page and do not click search or press Return, I still see the summary. Type "William" in the search box to see a variety of summaries. This is true for a half a dozen pages I looked at in mobile view, so for me, at least, the summary is turned off on the mobile page view, but it is still displayed in search results. I will leave it to the community to decide if the spirit of the RFC is being complied with by those results. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:22, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
  • Hey @Spellcheck: @Xaosflux:, I work with OVasileva at the Wikimedia Foundation. This is opportune timing, as we are actually in the process of rolling out a pilot of wikidata description editing on the Wikipedia Android app. More info here: [1] The wikidata descriptions have been live on Android for 2 years, but we recognize that, long-term, not being able to edit them where they are shown is an issue. There are definitely still other issues, but this particular solution is currently live in 3 languages and will be going to everywhere but the top 10 in our next release (this week or next). English should be done in a few months. We're moving conservatively, tracking revert rate and things of that nature as we roll them out so that we ensure this new editing model works. Let me know if you have other questions or concerns about this. Jkatz (WMF) (talk) 23:26, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
    @Jkatz (WMF): From the discussion above, it appears this is not just a problem when viewing a page (which the English Wikipedia community has expressed concerns with) but that this non-enwiki data is also being shown on English Wikipedia search results. Is this being addressed? — xaosflux Talk 00:15, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
    @Xaosflux: That particular issue will be addressed by editing from the page itself (similar to the page title showing in search). Wikidata description editing currently being piloted in Android should apply equally well here. If we want to improve this further, beyond making it editable in the article, I think the approach we have to take is with tracking, specifically making it easier to track this in your watchlist, which is currently possible but not ideal, and having it show up in page histories (which has not seen as much contributor interest. Here are some tasks we have in our backlog (not yet scheduled) to make this easier: Watchlist ((,, and history ( In the meantime, the potential risks of having the description show in search should be weighed carefully against the massive benefits to searchers who are able to better choose the page they are looking, avoiding multiple searches and unnecessary page loads on mobile devices, for which data is both slower and more expensive. Jkatz (WMF) (talk) 18:42, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
  • @Spellcheck: Just wanted to note that I have removed the example image you have used from this section and tagged it for deletion. Please don't create derivative works of copyrighted material that are here under fair use and upload them under a free license. It doesn't release the copyright and is considered copyright infringement. --Majora (talk) 23:41, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
    While technically correct, a "better" solution would be to recrop that screenshot, removing the image - as the point was to demonstrate the text problem. — xaosflux Talk 01:05, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
    I could have done that but it still would have required administrator action since the image would have still been in the history. I'm just not one to be cleaning up other people's copyright infringement. Never have been, never will. If you want to undelete the image, crop it, and rev'del the copyvio you are welcome to do so. If Spellcheck wants to fix it themselves and reupload it, they are welcome to do so. Copyvios deserve to be deleted on sight, not fixed, in my opinion. I've found through trial and error here and on Commons that trying to teach rarely works but a deletion notice gets people's attention. There are just too many copyvios in the file namespace to be spending too much time on any specific example. --Majora (talk) 20:37, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
    I'm not faulting you Majora - you executed the policy appropriately; just making sure it was clear to Spellcheck why it was a problem (i.e. not that it was a wikipedia screenshot, but that the screen shot included an included image that was not allowed). — xaosflux Talk 20:52, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

suppressredirect being used without suppressredirect permissions

Hello all, trying to find where we may have a write up for this: for certain moves users without the suppressredirect are still able (in some cases are FORCED) to suppress the creation of a redirect when moving pages. I found a related, non-resovled, phab ticket phab:T71162 - but not documentation of which namespace->namespaces are having this behavior forced now. — xaosflux Talk 19:04, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

A I know redirects are automatically suppressed for moves of js and css pages - as it makes no sense. Ruslik_Zero 20:35, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
@Ruslik0: Here is an example. — xaosflux Talk 20:46, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
example 2. — xaosflux Talk 21:01, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
The second example shows a module being moved to a new name. I think that has always not left a redirect because #REDIRECT cannot work on a module page where only valid Lua can be used (example from March 2013 is here). Johnuniq (talk) 00:44, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
At one time, moving .css and .js pages certainly left a "bad" #REDIRECT [[]] directive; it's relatively recently (two years ago maybe?) that redir suppression became the default for .css and .js pages. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 00:54, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
  • After thinking, these anomalies are all likely due to special situations: one was an non-wikitext content type page; and the module: namespace is somewhat special as well. — xaosflux Talk 01:02, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

extra fixes coming in to manual edits

Anyone noticed that nbsps are being added to edits? Is this some new bug or a feature of Firefox under Ubuntu? ϢereSpielChequers 08:49, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Are you using wikEd? It automatically converts nbsp characters to their character entities. – Train2104 (t • c) 12:13, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
I wonder if we could get Special:Tags added to WP:WikEd edits, so that we didn't have to ask.
This has come up several times, and so far, every person who's seen this behavior has been using wikEd. I believe that it does this on the grounds that the MOS prefers (or used to prefer?) visible HTML codes instead of actual non-breaking spaces (which some editors don't know how to create, and most editors don't know how to identify). WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:06, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
@WhatamIdoing: I've made the suggestion to Cacycle. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 16:08, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
Yes I'd opted into wikEd. Is this an acceptable feature of WikEd? It reminds me of the arguments about the minor fixes that AWB editors can opt into. I use AWB without said fixes and I'm not really comfortable with changes I didn't know I was making and am not sure I want responsibility for. ϢereSpielChequers 09:53, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Is there a move cache?

Or else, how is something like this possible? – Train2104 (t • c) 11:58, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

It was two different moves to two different names. The second move must have moved the redirect left by the first move. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:13, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
Rainbow trout transparent.png Self-trout D'oh! This is what happens when you look at non-standard issues first thing in the morning. – Train2104 (t • c) 12:18, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
The first move was probably an error, and the second move was probably an attempt to correct that. It's quite easily done: you move the page, and having done so, you realise that you moved it to the wrong title. So, since the "move" feature hasn't reloaded the page, you use your browser's "back" button to return to the page that you had moved (*), and move it again to the intended title. The error comes at the point marked (*): it is in not refreshing or reloading the page, so the move is being applied to the previous page name, not the current one. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 15:01, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Tech News: 2017-17

16:40, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Visual Editor causing weird changes to infoboxes

It appears that under some circumstances, Visual Editor causes an undesirable rearrangement of parameters in {{infobox station}}. A typical example occurs in this edit; the problem dates back to at least February. I don't know what to make of it. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 17:37, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

@Pi.1415926535: This behaviour goes back much earlier than February. VE reorders template params to match whatever order is laid down in the TemplateData (if you edit the page source, it's given by the "paramOrder" array). If a parameter is not mentioned in the TemplateData (such as |image_caption=), it's moved to the end. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:06, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
Doesn't seem unreasonable, though |other_name=| style=Amtrak on one line isn't ideal. Sam Walton (talk) 19:09, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
See T133874, declined as "not a bug". – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:45, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
Thank you all for the explanations. Since |image_caption= is a very common alias for |caption=, is there any way to add it to the TemplateData so that it doesn't get moved to the bottom? Similarly, is there any way to prevent the |other_name=| style=Amtrak bug by modifying the template? Thanks, Pi.1415926535 (talk) 02:45, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
@Pi.1415926535: I've modified the TemplateData so the parameters should be rearranged properly (the "Block" option in "Template preferred format"), but it seems to be taking some time for the change to propagate to VE. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
14:21, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
Thanks! Pi.1415926535 (talk) 19:35, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

E-Mail Rate Limit

Hello! I'm a volunteer account coordinator for The Wikipedia Library and often when I'm processing accounts I run into the issue of the e-mail rate limit. Which usually means I have to go over to Meta and sometimes Commons to send the remainder of the e-mails. Is there a local technical solution I'm perhaps missing? Thanks for the advice. --Cameron11598 (Talk) 17:53, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

@Cameron11598: Why are you sending emails instead of using the mass message feature? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:14, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
@Redrose64: I'm emailing links to a google form, the link allows anyone to enter their information for us to pass on to the partner. We only want to share the link with users who's account's are approved for access. --Cameron11598 (Talk) 19:27, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
@Cameron11598: the local solution would be account creators as it allows access to what you are looking for: (noratelimit) - apply at WP:PERM. — xaosflux Talk 21:27, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
@Xaosflux: Thanks! --Cameron11598 (Talk) 00:54, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

Teahouse Ask a Question

Carrying on conversation from my talkpage, it appears the Ask a question function isn't working. If you use it, it isn't saving the question. Does anyone know why this is? I'm using Windows 10 & Chrome latest version in case it matters. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:12, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

@Joseph2302: Thank you for reporting, there indeed was a problem. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 20:10, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

"Unknown parameter" message displayed in non-preview mode in Wikipedia app

In the Einstein family article, the infobox for Maria "Maja" Einstein contains an unsupported parameter (ethnicity). Accordingly, when I preview the page in my browser, I see the following message:

Warning: Page using Template:Infobox person with unknown parameter "ethnicity" (this message is shown only in preview).

However, I also see the message when I view the article (i.e. in "non-preview mode") in the Android Wikipedia app (rev 2.5.191-r-2017-03-31) on my mobile device. I don't see the message if I view the article in my browser on my mobile device, just in the app. Is this known behaviour? DH85868993 (talk) 23:48, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

That's because some editors decided to abuse a parser function / magic word to break the preview and change the way it appears when there is a perceived error in the page. The app picks up the page in a different way from the desktop view and so those errors go with it. It is funny considering that there was a whole discussion claiming that preview should be identical to "read pages", and yet such editors are allowed to abuse it. The fix needs to be made in the templates that generate those errors or the mediawiki developers need to remove the tool that allows such misuse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 08:32, 25 April 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 08:48, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply. DH85868993 (talk) 09:28, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

No.of Articles

Hi! In Tamil Wikipedia, We have 99,700+ Articles. But, [7] and [8], In these two links the no of articles in Tamil Wikipedia varies. Why is this?--Shriheeran (talk) 08:56, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Because one number is update 'live', and the other only once per day ? —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 09:39, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
Got it--Shriheeran (talk) 10:23, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Admin stats not displaying

Example here; it seems that admin stats are not appearing on administrator user pages, and instead, a message is displayed stating that the user is not an administrator when they actually are. Would anybody here be able to fix this problem? Thank you in advance. Patient Zerotalk 12:18, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

See User talk:Cyberpower678#Adminstats error. Anomie 12:37, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Editing tools for GNU/Linux

Are there any maintained editing tools for GNU/Linux? AutoWikiBrowser was the only cross-platformed editor I could found but its dead. --David Hedlund SWE (Talk) 15:10, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

@David Hedlund: I think the Windows version of AWB can be used on Linux through Wine, but I'm not sure how well it works on different distros. You could also try the in-browser version, but it also has some problems like not supporting regex find/replace. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
14:41, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
This is what I do. The demon scripts at the bottom of method 2 need to be updated, if you use them let me know, they give a general idea what is being done. The Cygwin method is good unless you're doing complex scripting, suggest start there if you're not sure. Keep in mind AWB when it writes out the I/O file keeps a file handle open so deleting it causes unusual behavior. The solution is the unix script either overwrites or zero-length it. -- GreenC 15:08, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks but I don't want to run GNU/Linux from another OS. Are there no such solution? --David Hedlund SWE (Talk) 16:01, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Method 2 links them via a shared directory, which can be done over a network directory share or however. Last time I tried to run via Wine it worked but I didn't do much testing. -- GreenC 16:38, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
Here we are perilously close to undermining one of Wikipedia first principles- an encyclopedia that anyone can edit if they are rich enough. I always view any code that is generated using proprietory software as potentially un-free- which violates our strict observance of copyright. We insist on ogg, we use .odt not .doc so saying we advise users to Microsoft or upload a filter to throttle back their computer is not just a technical issue but a moral issue as well. Picture the scenario where you have a class of Raspberry Pi user, running Raspian or Ubuntu to bring computers to a poor community working on solar- you are saying they can enjoy the fruits of Wikipedia but are not allowed to contribute.
We wonder why the age-profile of editors is changing, we acknowledge that youngster are more likely to access the WP through a phone app and are beginning to make the connection. We don't ask the question 'Are there any maintained editing tools for Android?
So instead of patronising, or evading the questions lets put it another way 'Which edit tools need to be rewritten to make them cross platform?'. 'What is the time scale for rewriting them?' and 'When notified what resources does the foundation need to deploy to expedite the process?'. ClemRutter (talk) 17:08, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
@ClemRutter: Please participate in if you want. You may want to copy your text to that issue, I liked it. --David Hedlund SWE (Talk) 19:33, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
Please cross-post for me. I haven't a phabricator account and I suspect I am spreading myself too thinly as it is- I will have a look later, I am mystified by how intellectual resources are being used, and how the absolute basics are ignored. Actually I am not, working with volunteers is like herding cats, and that is used by staffers to prioritise their passions rather than tackle the fundamentals where they could be really effective. ClemRutter (talk) 23:41, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
There is JavaScript Wiki Browser, which is similar to AWB but runs in your browser. It worked well for me the couple of times I used it, but I haven't used it for anything complicated. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 04:35, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

URL going to wrong article

This should link to British Israelism, but links to th Oxford Universoty Conservarive Association. Doug Weller talk 04:52, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

I think you meant this. You were missing a final "6" from the oldid. The revision ID you linked to was the same as this. It looks like the title is ignored if the oldid is valid. That could be used for mischief, I suppose, but let's just stay away from the WP:BEANS instead. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:42, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
title= is always ignored if oldid= (or certain other parameters) is present. Your oldid was an edit to Oxford University Conservative Association (you mistyped the title above). PrimeHunter (talk) 20:53, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Nav box and mobile... Is someone in here really good at editing Wikipedia?

Look at my sandbox. I'm trying to make the nav box on the right either look minimally decent on mobile (i.e. not all messed up), or not appear at all on mobile. Either one would be fine with me. Is it really impossible? Karlpoppery (talk) 05:23, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

If someone answers, please email me, otherwise I won't see it. Thanks. Karlpoppery (talk) 05:04, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

SVG rendering problem?

This image File:Areas of insect wing.svg as used in this Good Article Insect_wing has a black artifact in the middle of it. The Original image does not, which suggests it may be a problem with the rendering software. Is this something that is known and if known is there a solution or does this require a "ahem" bug report?--S Philbrick(Talk) 12:17, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Looks like phab:T43424, rsvg doesn't support <flowroot> and related tags, so it winds up rendering the unstyled path that's supposed to contain the text as a black object instead. But that image doesn't actually put any text in the <flowroot>, so it's useless and can be removed. Along with at least 90% of the other markup in the file. Anomie 19:19, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Country wikilinks in sports articles

I would like to change the inappropriate wikilinks (for example in this article) from  France to France France. Is here any easy template for doing it?
Maiō T. (talk) 16:41, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Next to last editors button

The next to last editors button on the diff page used to be broken in that it was always visible, but only showed the most recent editor no matter what page it was clicked on. Now it always show no difference, even though when you show the changes manually, it is obvious that changes were made. Natureium (talk) 18:37, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

@Natureium: I don't know which feature you refer to. Please describe it more carefully with an example link, say whether you see the feature if you log out, and whether it works in that case. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:44, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
When you are on your watchlist page and click "diff" or a View History page and click "compare elected revisions", one of the options underneath "previous edit" is "next-to-last editor". This button used to only work on the most recent edit even though it's visible on any page where an editor has edited more than once in a row. Now, clicking on it just takes you to a page that says "(No difference)". Natureium (talk) 21:17, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
@Natureium: I don't see that feature and you didn't do any of the three things I asked for but a search found User:DerHexer/revisionjumper#Function: ← next-to-last editor, a script by User:DerHexer. I assume you have enabled revisionjumper at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets. MediaWiki:Gadget-revisionjumper.js shows it loads code from de:MediaWiki:Gadget-revisionjumper.js. Another time, please answer clarifying questions and realize that users see different things depending on various circumstances. Sorry for being grumpy but it's important information to helpers that you don't see the reported feature if you log out. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:12, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Mobile: browser previous page then previous page does not work after clicking edit section

Let me know if you cannot reproduce this bug., (talk) 19:08, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

which mobile browser. which operating system. which versions of those ? —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 19:20, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
This happens on Android chrome latest version and windows chrome latest version under developer tools mobile mode. (talk) 02:13, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

LoginNotify coming soon to a wiki near you!

Failed login attempt notification on Echo
Login attempt notification as seen on a different wiki
Here’s what you would see in Special:Notifications, or in the panel, after you mark the bundle as Read. Since the above notification is a bundle of 6 individual notifications, they disperse after you mark the bundle as "Read" and you see a generic message for each of them.

Hi all. The Community Tech team has almost wrapped up work on wish #7 on the 2016 Community Wishlist Survey -- Warning on unsuccessful login attempts. We want to give you a preview of how the new feature will work, and get your feedback.

The project aims to improve security on Wikimedia sites by notifying users when there are unsuccessful attempts to login with their username from both known and unknown IPs and devices. This project builds on the LoginNotify extension which was created by Brian Wolff in 2016.

How does it work? The extension keeps track of known devices (browsers really) by placing a cookie in the browser. This cookie automatically expires in 180 days. If a failed login attempt happens from a new browser, it generates an Echo notification alerting the user about the login attempt. The other way that we identify known devices is by checking the current IP address subnet against the IP addresses that have been used recently (as stored in a temporary server cache). None of the information is stored in a database and at no point is any private information revealed publicly, including the attacker’s IP address/location. The WMF Legal and Security teams have reviewed the implementation for both compliance with our Privacy Policy and security considerations.

For known devices/IPs, we allow up to 5 login attempts before alerting the user about the login attempt, since it's fairly common to mistype or forget a password. If there are 5 or more failed attempts, the notification will say: "There have been 5 failed attempts to log in to your account since the last time you logged in. If this wasn't you, please make sure your account has a strong password." There would be another notification at 10 attempts, 15 attempts and so on.

For unknown devices/IPs, we alert on every failed attempt. The extension bundles these notifications to avoid spamming users with too many notifications. For example, if there are 3 failed attempts from an unknown device, there will be a single notification, which says: "There have been 3 failed attempts to log in to your account from a new device since the last time you logged in. If this wasn't you, please make sure your account has a strong password." On further attempts, that notification would update to say "4 failed attempts," "5 failed attempts", and so on.

How does it look? The first picture on the right is what the notification looks like if the attack happened on the wiki that you're currently on; the second picture is what it would look like if you view it on a different wiki. The notification is issued from the wiki where the attack happened.

There are two ways for the user to get these notifications - either by web Echo notifications or by email. By default, the web notifications are on for everyone and email ones are turned off. This is configurable in the notification preferences.

The text for the notifications as well as the threshold for when you get the notifications is subject to changes, based on your feedback.

This extension does not give you notifications when somebody successfully logs into your account from an unknown device or IP. It is technically possible to generate those, but if somebody else has logged in, they could just as easily see those notifications and do a password reset (which the notification encourages you to do). The ideal way to handle this is to issue email notifications for this case, but since most Wikipedia accounts do not have emails associated with them, this wouldn't be useful to majority of the users. So for the time being, we have settled for not issuing these notifications.

We'd love to hear what you think of this so far, and what you think we should change, if anything. We expect to deploy this within the coming weeks. Thanks for your time! -- NKohli (WMF) (talk) 19:52, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

  • For accounts with 2FA - will this fire from bad passwords alone, or will they also have to enter a bad token value? — xaosflux Talk 19:57, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
It'll fire from bad passwords alone. There's a ticket at T158379 to discuss the possibility of generating notifications when somebody is attempting to guess the token value repeatedly (given they know the password to the account). -- NKohli (WMF) (talk) 20:15, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
  • I like this idea, but would there be an opt-out or a way to disable these? Not to get too beans-y, but constantly pinging or thanking people is a common form of mild harassment, and triggering password-reset emails is less common but tends to be more worrying to the recipients, especially if they're not very technically inclined. Opabinia regalis (talk) 21:10, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
Yep, you can opt in/out from your Notification preferences. Email alerts are off by default and Echo alerts are on by default to minimize spamming. The notifications will be bundled into one, so hopefully it won't be too spammy. :) -- NKohli (WMF) (talk) 21:15, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
Thanks! (Heh, I clicked "thank" before realizing the irony... ;) Opabinia regalis (talk) 21:34, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
Thanks, this looks good. But can "bundle" be spelled out? If the relevant server is under a light load, and an attacker enters one bad password per 20 seconds for one hour (180 failures—very possible with some harassers), what would happen? Re notification preferences, are you saying that there will be a new entry under "Notify me about these events", and that one entry could be set to off to stop LoginNotify while allowing any other wanted events? Johnuniq (talk) 00:54, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
If those 180 attempts happened from an unknown device/IP, you'd get one notification saying there were "180 failed login attempts". If it was a known device/IP, you'd see multiple notifications, for every 5 tries (so at 5, 10, 15... attempts). But I'd like to point out that such a scenario is quite difficult to achieve, because Wikipedia requires you to enter a captcha for every attempt after 3 failed attempts and after 6, you're blocked from login attempts for 5 minutes. Regarding preferences, yes, you will have an option for "Notify me about failed login attempts" followed by two checkboxes, one for Web notifications and one for email. You can turn them on/off as you like without affecting any other notifications. -- NKohli (WMF) (talk) 04:44, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
  • The way I understand it, if I try to log in from an unknown device and fail the first time but succeed the second time on the same device, I'll see a notification once I make it in. Is this correct, or will that notification be removed automatically? As someone who clears their cookies on a nightly basis, every morning will be an unknown device. – Train2104 (t • c) 02:30, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
That's right. You will see the notification on login. If you login everyday, chances are pretty high that you don't mess up your password often, so you won't likely see many unwanted notifications. -- NKohli (WMF) (talk) 04:44, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Javascript and Module editors

When it came to the editors for Javascript scripts and Lua modules, I used to have some form of code editor for the inputs that would allow me to insert tabs, highlight brackets, etc. Now I'm getting the standard input that is used for templates and regular articles. Was the code-editor-input deprecated/removed, or is a preference or something similar? -- AlexTW 22:46, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Upper left corner of the editing window for a lua page has <> icon? Click that. For me, that toggles between normal wikitext editor and code editor.
Trappist the monk (talk) 23:17, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
@Trappist the monk: Bingo. Thanks! -- AlexTW 10:51, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Reporting: my Login is no longer working

Greetings, When I attempt my usual English WP login (user name is JoeHebda), it loads page at

with this message

Central user log in

The provided authentication token is either expired or invalid.

So far, I have closed out my browser & started over, attemped Login at WikiMedia. Don't know what to try next. Please help. Regards, JoeHebda

I get the same problem. DuncanHill (talk) 13:00, 27 April 2017 (UTC) I kept getting the "loss of session data" message, so followed the instructions to log out and in again, then got the "Central user log in" message referred to above. I closed browser, switched my internet connexion off and on again, and seem to be logged back in. Very worrying to me as I couldn't edit from IP - I use mobile internet (3 Mobile in the UK) and someone has put a school block on the IP address. Using Edge on Win 10, with mobile hotspot via 3 Mobile to connect to internet. DuncanHill (talk) 13:03, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Me too. I can't log in from any Wikimedia site or from another browser. My user name is Epicgenius. (talk) 13:04, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Had the same problem - I was sent to, I logged in there and was able to login and then go to See my post below for another problem I just noticed today  Ҝ Ø Ƽ Ħ  13:05, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Same problem here, but it is working now. Odd. Patient Zerotalk 13:08, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Working too once I tried KoshVorlon's method. epicgenius (talk) 13:09, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
I just carried on trying to log in and it eventually worked! Patient Zerotalk 13:09, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Working now the normal way. When the problem occurred I was actually force logged out. – Train2104 (t • c) 13:10, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

My JoeHebda login is now working. I did a complete power-Off of my laptop & re-boot. Now all is OK. Cheers! JoeHebda • (talk) 13:10, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Watchlist not updating

I just tried to add a page to my watchlist (currently I have 4 in right now ), rather than getting the prompt that says the page was added into my watchlist, I'm going aroiund in a loop. When I try to edit the raw watchlist, pretty much the same thing happens. Anyone else having this issue ?  Ҝ Ø Ƽ Ħ  13:05, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Quick update -- it just started working again!  Ҝ Ø Ƽ Ħ  13:08, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Watchlist not loading

I've been having a weird watchlist issue since yesterday (April 26). When I try to load it, I just get an empty document. Same result in Firefox and Chrome (I'm on a Mac). I just created a test account to see if it was my browsers, but that account's watchlist worked fine, so I guess it's something specific to my account.

Any ideas as to what would be causing this? Thanks! Trivialist (talk) 18:31, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Does this link work? Max Semenik (talk) 19:48, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Disregard, it's working now. @MaxSem: Wasn't able to try your link when my watchlist was broken, but trying it now produces the same effect I was getting before (empty document). What does "safemode=true" do? Trivialist (talk) 20:46, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
"safemode=1" (the value suggested at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 154#Tech News: 2017-16) prevents personal CSS, JavaScript and gadgets from running. It shouldn't make an empty document, and doesn't for me. Maybe you still have the problem but only at random times. How many pages do you have on your watchlist? PrimeHunter (talk) 21:01, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Hmm. Was broken again (safemode didn't work either). Checking the number of pages on my watchlist (1,930), I removed them all, added only the Main Page, and now it works fine. What's the maximum number of pages you can watch without breaking things? Trivialist (talk) 21:15, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Adding and removing pages from Special:EditWatchlist breaks somewhere around 3-5k watched pages; otherwise, watchlists have no programmatic limit. --Izno (talk) 21:17, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
I watch 8,347 pages and have no problems viewing Special:Watchlist or removing pages from Special:EditWatchlist. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:46, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
21,192 pages (probably about 21,191 too many for sanity) - at this level, the watchlist editors are very slow, but still usable. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:00, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
I re-added everything, and it's working fine now. *shrug* Thanks to all for your assistance. Trivialist (talk) 22:06, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Edit Count

When I click edit count on my user page it leads to this broken link instead of the working link. CTF83! 19:29, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

@CTF83!: your userpage is a bit busy, can you be more specific where this link is located? It may be a template, or a system message that needs updating. — xaosflux Talk 19:41, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Neither the string "edit count" nor the posted link occur on your user page for me. If you see it there then you must have some script or other feature adding it. Anyway, the xTools are notoriously unstable. Both url's currently give the same mostly but not completely broken result for me. I guess they are both supposed to work and you just hit one of them at a lucky time where the tool responded. The one you call broken is linked on "Edit count" at the bottom of Special:Contributions/CTF83! for users with the default en language in preferences. The link is made by MediaWiki:Sp-contributions-footer. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:32, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
That link in the footer doesn't work for either the user in question or myself, it loads but there are no edits. The template to be edited for repair is {{Sp-contributions-footer}}. – Train2104 (t • c) 23:59, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Both links currently work for me. xTools are unstable as mentioned. We could discuss whether the link should be removed, or replaced with another tool at Wikipedia:WikiProject edit counters, but I see no reason to change the url to the other xTools form unless we have data indicating that form is more likely to work. My guess: It makes no difference. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:36, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

Articles with broken section links.

Is there a list somewhere of articles containing broken links to sections of other articles, or broken links to section redirects? If not, can such a list be created? Cheers! bd2412 T 02:11, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

Retrieved from ""
This content was retrieved from Wikipedia :
This page is based on the copyrighted Wikipedia article "Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)"; it is used under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License (CC-BY-SA). You may redistribute it, verbatim or modified, providing that you comply with the terms of the CC-BY-SA