Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)

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Donna Strickland wins Nobel prize -- without enwiki article

FYI: Donna Strickland won a Nobel Prize in Physics this week (she's now on our Main page of course). It appeared that she had no enwiki article at the time of Nobel announcement. (It was deleted in 2014 for copyright reasons). -DePiep (talk) 20:11, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

And then deleted again later for apparent lack of notability. But apparently some 33% of new Nobel winners have no article, which is slightly surprising. The man who won the Chemistry Nobel the next day had no article either, which has of course received no media coverage whatsoever, whereas this has been all over the media & several discussions here that I can't be bothered to link to (usual places - do a what links here). Johnbod (talk) 22:48, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
For the record, not 'deleted again', declined at article creation (with a request for more sources). Alanscottwalker (talk) 22:50, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
While it's entirely possible that whoever proposed deletion or declined the article creation failed to properly follow WP:ACADEMIC, the coverage of this is rather silly and misunderstands how Wikipedia operates. Are we just supposed to assume that researchers might win a Nobel in the future when reviewing articles? The fact that there are past Nobel winners that don't have articles is far more concerning than someone not having an article prior to winning a Nobel. signed, Rosguill talk 22:56, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
Wow. Johnbod Could you give the wiki page where this number is described & discussed? - DePiep (talk) 11:30, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
Well, List_of_Nobel_laureates lists all and none is a red link. -DePiep (talk) 13:04, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
I think Johnbod means that at the time the Nobel is announced, some have no article; but it is rapidly created due to the Nobel. 33% might be too high but as a regular at WP:ITNC where we do post the announcement of all Nobels, there is at least one or two laureates each year that have no article at the time of announcement, and editors step up to make one based on the weight of the Nobel so that it is done for the ITN posting. But that's also not accounting for how many start in poor shape that would be on the cusp of deletion (in the same manner as Strickland's draft) and get improved. I'd argue its something like 10-15% of Laureates don't have articles when the Nobel is announced, but closer to 60-75% that have very poor articles at that same point in time, all which are created/improved on the announcement. --Masem (t) 13:13, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
It's 13.19% of Nobel Laureates in Physics, Chemistry, and Physiology and Medicine since 2007.[1] GMGtalk 13:32, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
Well, that's one figure. The 33% covers a wider group of 212 Nobel winners, but going right back to WP's start - see User_talk:Bradv#About_your_rejection_of_the_AfC_on_Donna_Strickland. Johnbod (talk) 18:51, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
Did her page not exist because she is a women? No. -DePiep (talk) 21:23, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
We can't really say that in any statistical sense. There are too few women Nobel laureates overall to draw any conclusions. It very well may be the case. Now it may also very well be the case that this was the result of systemic bias, but also that that systemic bias lies largely external to Wikipedia, as some have pointed out, that we are often hamstrung by sources that themselves tend to prefer writing about men. GMGtalk 10:59, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
Another issue that is hard for academics that do not have much coverage until they get an esteemed award is that we have COI problems with BLPs in general where people are posting effective resumes to get hits. We have to err on the side of exclusion if notability is not there in the article. I would argue that Strickland could have passed some tests for notability prior to the Nobel, but those sources to support that were not provided at the state the draft was rejected. We need to stress to editors to make sure that when they create these articles they strive to make it encyclopedic rather than promotions/resume or CV-ish or the like. --Masem (t) 23:18, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
Yup... remember that there are two prongs to WP:Notability - the first is that the subject has to have done something noteworthy... the second is that others (reliable sources) have to have taken note of what the subject did. There are lots of academics who achieve the first prong without achieving the second. Blueboar (talk) 12:57, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
Clerly (TM), the physics editors, the Canadian editors, the Women in Red editors, and the press journalists (not to mention other groups/projects), failed us, they should all be fired. Alanscottwalker (talk) 18:05, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
Getting them fired seems rather harsh, surely fairer that they should have their pay deducted from 28 March to 3 October for failing to anticipate the future actions of the Nobel committee. . . dave souza, talk 00:57, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
Note: The original article in 2014 was deleted as an unambiguous copyright violation. It had nothing to due with notability. Rmhermen (talk) 19:39, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
Where does it say that? Hawkeye7 (discuss) 01:11, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
Admins can see it, and I vouch for what others have said about the deleted version. It was a copyvio outright from university pages. --Masem (t) 01:14, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
Here. You don't need to be an admin to see the deletion log. – Finnusertop (talkcontribs) 16:02, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
Since this was being raised as a persistent question, I had a careful look and the version that was deleted in March 2014 was an exact word for word copy of the two paragraphs of the OSA biography (as archived 2015-08-28) with the order of the paragraphs swapped, and a new opening sentence stating "Donna Strickland is a past president of the Optical Society." So it was a webpage of The Optical Society rather than a university page. . . . dave souza, talk 15:57, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
If anyone is interested, I reviewed scientists who won the Nobel since 2007. There were 12 (out of 91) that didn't have an article at the time that they won. A few more details here: Dragons flight (talk) 16:01, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

Arabic diacritics in {{lang}} template in lead

At Zanzibar, someone has removed the diacritics from the spelling of the Arabic name for the territory. Do we have a guideline as to whether or not to provide the vocalized form? Largoplazo (talk) 18:04, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

I didn't find any (if there was one, I guess it would be in Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Arabic#Lead paragraph). Since a strict transliteration is encouraged next to the Arabic text, the non-vocalised form might actually be more useful (for searching etc.), but I don't think it's a difference that merits enforcing in either way. One related guideline is for Hebrew, it says not to include vowels (Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Hebrew)#Vowels and shva). Tokenzero (talk) 12:32, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Talk:Kosovo Pomoravlje#Title

Talk:Kosovo Pomoravlje#Title --SrpskiAnonimac (talk) 21:03, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Baidu Baike

Why Baidu Baike ( has 16000000 articles but English Wikipedia has 5700000 articles — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amirh123 (talkcontribs) 15:04, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

They have a relaxed approach to copyright issues and notability.©Geni (talk) 20:55, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

but 16000000 is very big — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amirh123 (talkcontribs) 09:06, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

and quality and legality are important for us here. --Zac67 (talk) 09:15, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
As a random example, it has three pages (1 2 3) on exactly the same topic (the Baikonur Cosmodrome). To be fair, the first one seems to have a lot of content than Wikipedia (English or Chinese) does not (even some potentially interesting references, like [1] there). But, for example, the section "Historical events (历史事件)" is just copied from reference 2 there. There are also far fewer references in total, so it's much less likely to be credible. Some articles are known to be copied and plagiarized from Wikipedia, without attribution; some are machine translated (which leads to terrible language quality); see Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks/Baidu Baike. Baidu Baike is also more open to self-promoting content, so people create articles just to advertise themselves. Probably the main factor though is big numbers of very short articles on nonsense topics; for example, one article for each mobile app that provides a few wallpapers (see this search). Tokenzero (talk) 11:14, 17 October 2018 (UTC)


Does the article "Freestyle battle" need to be a redirect to the article "Battle rap", or? --SrpskiAnonimac (talk) 14:30, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

Peer reviews

Is it just me, or, are an absurd number drafts (or former drafts) being nominated for peer review recently? Regards, SshibumXZ (talk · contribs). 03:50, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

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