Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)

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Text of tabs in MonoBook skin

If I view a talk page in MonoBook skin, and append ?uselang=qqx to the URL in order to view the interface message names, the tabs at the top of the page are shown as follows:


This to me indicates that the messages should be found at:

but all of these, except the first, are redlinks. Where do the messages really come from? In particular, the fourth one. I should be able to write "{{int:monobook-action-addsection}}" in order to emit "new section", but instead I get "⧼monobook-action-addsection⧽". --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:12, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

The "nstab" ones are special, (see phab:T153867) and can use the associated MediaWiki:Main and MediaWiki:Talk messages; the others are even more special - they are in core and also appear linked to i18n, but they can be overwritten with local messages. See that first phab link for why int doesn't work here. — xaosflux Talk 19:43, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
In some cases there are multiple messages that can be used, starting with more-specific messages and falling back to more general messages if the specific message doesn't exist. The skin elements you've mentioned here work that way: the talk tab specifies MediaWiki:talk as a fallback after the namespace-specific message (MediaWiki:nstab-talk, MediaWiki:nstab-project_talk, etc.), the view history tab specifies the generic MediaWiki:history_short as a fallback for MediaWiki:monobook-view-history, and so on.

I don't know of any way to determine these fallback chains besides finding the PHP code that generates the element. The fallback chains aren't a property of the messages themselves, which is why the int: magic word can't fall back. Since the qqx language "defines" all messages, it shows only the first message in the chain. Anomie 17:17, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

The problem that I'm trying to address here is one where I'm advising various users (there have been several) on how to use discussion pages. These users all have a common factor: they are starting new discussions on talk pages in a manner that is not advised by WP:TPG. They add their new posting either (i) at the very top, above the banners; (ii) below the banners but before the first section; (iii) in some random existing discussion part-way down the page (not necessarily at the bottom of that discussion); (iv) at the bottom of the page but without adding a new heading so that the new post appears to be part of an unrelated thread. What I want to do is describe the tab that they should be using to start a new discussion, unfortunately these users could have any skin selected (out of five or six), and any language set (out of well over 100). The language problem is normally sorted by using {{int:messagename}} but I know of no way for customising for skin. A few years ago (for a few years from mid-2010 on), we could assume that all newbies were using Vector; but with mobile devices on the increase. this is no longer the case. Not all are newbies: indeed, there are also a few long-standing admins (one I could name, but won't, has been an admin for longer than I've been registered, which is nine years) who start new threads by adding to the last existing section (I can tell by the grey part of the edit summary). Accordingly, I want to suggest the internationalised form for two or three of the more common skins - Vector, Monobook, MinervaNeue. So, I find the message names for a given skin by appending ?uselang=qqx&useskin=monobook (or whichever skin I wish to inspect) to the URL. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:23, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
I think it's safe to omit MonoBook, as it is used by very few new editors. If you don't mind handling it manually, you can see from the tags on their contributions if they're using the Mobile Web site. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:07, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

How to permanently and globally disable mobile wikitext editor without disabling mobile wiki skin.

Reposting from helpdesk according to suggestion

I have repeatedly encountered the problem and tried to searched and asked for solution but still can't find anything that can help me.

On mobile devices, due to the limited amount of memory, it's easy for browser tabs to be clear out of memory when user opened too much other tabs to look for information when from other sites.

Normally, when browser reload those tabs when user switch into the tab after the tab being cleared out if the memory, it would still be possible for original text in editor field to be loaded back.

However, since that wikitext mobile editor was dynamically pulled in the page, this browser text field recovery process could not work, and thus hours and hours of edits that would have been made via mobile browsers have all go into vain thanks to that completely counterproductive design.

How to permanently disable that?

C933103 (talk) 03:08, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

C933103, which of the multiple mobile-editing systems is being used here? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:59, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
@Whatamidoing (WMF): The one with "#/editor/0" appear in URL when used. C933103 (talk) 18:02, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
C933103, I asked a couple of tech folks about this, and I have sort of bad news and maybe-okay news. There doesn't seem to be a way to change the browser behavior. The default at "#/editor/0" is the Javascript-based mobile wikitext editor, and there's no way to stop the browser from clearing out the memory, nor is there any autosave. (The original text in the editing window is only auto-reloaded by some browsers, some times, usually on desktop.) However – and this is the maybe-okay news – if you can switch to the mobile visual editor, then you'll get a built-in autosave feature which would usually save your work in such cases (although it's not guaranteed). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 15:07, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
@Whatamidoing (WMF): So that mean I can switch the editor, but I can only switch it to the mobile visual one instead of the traditional desktop one? If editor switching is already possible, can I request the feature pf switching it to the traditional mobile one? (talk) 16:16, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
If the URL says "#/editor/0" at the end, then you aren't using "the traditional desktop one" (of which there are about four, depending upon how you count them, plus multiple other "non-traditional" mw:editors). If you are on the mobile website, regardless of device, then you have only three options for editing:
  1. The "traditional" (but not the "original") mobile wikitext editor (You are using this if Javascript is enabled in your browser, and you see wikitext.)
  2. An empty HTML <textarea> box, aka the 2003 wikitext editor (Javascript is disabled. You will see wikitext but no toolbar or buttons.)
  3. The visual editor (This is the only option that doesn't show wikitext codes. It is also the only option that has a built-in auto-save feature.)
You can already switch between all of the three available options. Unfortunately, what nobody can do right now is:
  • make any of the visual editor's built-in features (its citation filling tool, its auto-save feature, etc.) appear in any of the other editing environments (and vice versa), or
  • make the web browser on your phone auto-save lost work in the same way that the web browser on your laptop auto-saves lost work. Note this key detail: If you accidentally close a tab in Chrome or Firefox on your Windows laptop, and your changes are restored when you re-open the tab, that recovery is being done directly by Chrome or Firefox on your laptop – not by anything Wikipedia controls. So far, it appears that the makers of mobile web browsers have not chosen to provide a similar feature on mobile browsers. You'd have to contact the makers of UC Browser, Opera, Firefox, etc., and ask them to build that (and then it would work for all websites).
Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:33, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
@Whatamidoing (WMF): I mean, do you know how can I switch from using "#/editor/0" by default, into using "?action=edit&section=0" by default? Or alternatively, how can I change to use the "2003 wikitext editor" you described while still staying in the mobile skin when reading? I can't find where can I make such a switch option. C933103 (talk) 21:32, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
C933103, sorry for the late reply. I don't think that you can switch the URL. You get the 2003 WTE by turning off Javascript in your web browser, but (a) you might not like the results, since lots of pages will look worse and most tools will disappear, and (b) I don't think it would solve your actual problem.
Your actual problem is that your web browser is running out of memory and, as a result, actively throwing away your unsaved changes. Since the problem is "browser out of memory, throwing away all the changes", then it seems to me that it is unlikely that you will, even in the 2003 WTE, get "browser out of memory, throwing away all the changes – also, saving those changes in memory, just case he re-opens this tab". The reason that a desktop web browser (sometimes) saves your changes when you accidentally close a tab is because your desktop browser is not running out of memory, so it has a place to save those. If your mobile web browser had memory to save it, it wouldn't have thrown it away in the first place. But it has no memory to spare, so it throws away your changes permanently, with no hope of recovery.
I don't think that there is any change you can make on Wikipedia that will stop your web browser from actively throwing away your changes on Wikipedia when it runs out of memory. If you need Wikipedia to save your changes, so that they can (usually) be recovered when your web browser throws them away (or crashes), then that feature is only available in VisualEditor. If you want your web browser to save your changes (or just to stop removing them), then you need to upgrade your mobile device, to something with a lot more memory. In the meantime, it might be a good idea to "Save Early, Save Often". Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:25, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
@Whatamidoing (WMF): Except I do get my text back if I use the desktop editor and then page get purged due to lack of memory. The reaso is that mobile browser also have something like cache memory that's stored within devices' storage instead of RAM. So, the no-js editor is actually helpful too, but I don't want to disable js for my entire browser just tp use this particular old edit tool. How can I get that no-js editor via setting? Or should I request the implementation of such feature that would allow user to manually switch between different editors?C933103 (talk) 18:56, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia:RefToolbar modification

Is it possible to change Wikipedia:RefToolbar so that it can output a {{sfn}} template (or relative) along with the citation template, instead of solely the ref tags? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 20:09, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

A couple of questions to clarify: do you want sfn as another template in the "Templates" menu, as another entry in the top-level menu (alongside "Error check"), or something else? And when you say along with the citation template, looking at the sfn docs, it doesn't look like sfn goes with another template. I don't use sfn at all, so should the new menu option add something else besides just the sfn template? Enterprisey (talk!) 07:41, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
Currently the output of RefToolbar is basically <ref>{{Citation template|parameters}}</ref> or <ref name="Somename">{{Citation template|parameters}}. I wonder if it's possible to make it do something like {{Citation template|parameters}}</ref>{{sfn|parameters}} instead. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 14:38, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
That seems like a rather strange usage. Normally (see Shortened footnotes) the {{sfn}} template goes inline, at a position where the <ref>...</ref> pair would have been added, and the long-form {{cite xxx}} template goes in a section near the bottom of the article. They don't go together, although if properly used they do link together. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:52, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
No, that was just a typo. There was an additional "ref" tag that I didn't remove. Yes, the issue is that as is the RefToolbar has no good function for sfn users. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 07:16, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
Now you have one unbalanced <ref> and one unbalanced </ref>. But that wasn't my point: the implication of your 14:38, 7 September 2018 (UTC) post is that you want to put the two separate components side-by-side, which is not how they are intended for use. See a recent TFA for an example of the proper usage of {{sfn}} in conjunction with {{cite xxx}} templates. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 12:32, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
OK, seems like I did write my post incorrectly. What I wanted to ask for is an output like {{Citation template|parameters}}{{sfn|parameters}}. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 12:45, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
It won't work. The tool inserts its output at a single place in the edit window, but what you are asking for is the insertion of two templates simultaneously. The problem is that these are intended to be placed at different parts of the article, like this so somehow we would need all the browser vendors to modify their browsers to allow for a second text cursor and thus a second insertion point. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 15:58, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
Huh. Generally when I use the ref toolbar I modify the output so that I can make a list, I don't simply insert the output and leave it. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 20:32, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
Jo-Jo, it is possible that you are not entirely normal (in the best possible sense ;-) ).
More seriously, few "normal" editors use sfn, and few "normal" editors modify the output from any of the citation filling tools (more's the pity). While this would be popular among a small group of editors who work in certain specific subject areas (e.g., history, but not any of the hard sciences), this is IMO not a feature that would be widely used, and if it were easy to enable, then I worry about people accidentally screwing up the ~99% of articles that don't use sfn templates. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:20, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
@WhatamIdoing: [citation needed] on that claim of "~99% of articles that don't use sfn templates". Are you including unreferenced articles, sub-stubs and pages that are barely above draft level? To gain a fair measure, we should be looking at the better articles. Let's take a quick check of the thirty articles that are on the TFA list for this month. Of these, the following use {{sfn}} to a greater or lesser extent (some use it exclusively):
So that's 14 out of 30, or 46.67%, using {{sfn}} to a non-insignificant level. The other 16 use <ref>...</ref> tags, in some cases to construct Shortened footnotes using {{harvnb}} tags or similar.
An FA "exemplifies our very best work and is distinguished by professional standards of writing, presentation, and sourcing". So it is clear that {{sfn}} is not something to be dismissed. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 10:04, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
I don't think it's a good idea to optimize a system that will be used in 100% of pages (NB: not just articles) for the 0.1% of articles (0.01% of pages) that are featured-class, either. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:45, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Smart way to determine if looking at an IP range?

Do we have a good way of determining if you're looking at the contributions for an IP range? Best I've got is splitting wgTitle on /, then checking array[1] with mw.util.isIPAddress and array[2] as being between 16-32 (ipv4) or 32-128 (ipv6). ~ Amory (utc) 15:57, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

  • @Amorymeltzer: I'd avoid wgTitle entirely, at least. I'd use wgCanonicalSpecialPageName to test being on a contributions page (the property is null on non-special pages, and "Contributions" regardless of language on contribs pages) and wgRelevantUserName (with mw.util.isIPAddress() as you've already identified) to check against being an IP. {{Nihiltres |talk |edits}} 22:55, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
    • Sorry, I should have been clearer — I meant a block of addresses, like wgRelevantUserName isn't defined for a range, on Special:Contributions or elsewhere, and AFAICT wgTitle is the only bit on the page that has that information. ~ Amory (utc) 23:46, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
      • My mistake. In that case, your approach seems fine, though I'd question if checking array[2] is necessary; forward slashes are technically prohibited in usernames and an invalid range makes the page return a descriptive error message on its own. One more suggestion: we might add a clear identifier to MediaWiki:Sp-contributions-footer-anon-range, making things simpler from MediaWiki's end. {{Nihiltres |talk |edits}} 04:40, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

Any problems if acdate is alias of accessdate?

I am thinking to enhance templates to accept "acdate=" where only "accessdate=" was allowed. I understand cite Bots would need to hunt alias "acdate=", but any other tech issues? About 10% of cite errors are misspellings as "access date=" for "access-date=" or one-ess "accesdate=" or one-cee "acessdate=" or triple-c "acccessdate=" or even "date accessed" (as if Italian "data accesso="). I think some 1-letter variants linger from Spanish versus Portuguese ("acceso" or "acesso"), and so I hope a transition to alias "acdate=" would reduce many errors in future years. Any other technical concerns? -Wikid77 (talk) 22:56, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

(1) Bad idea, we have far too many aliases in the {{cite xxx}} templates as it is. (ii) Wrong page, requests for changes to those templates belong at Help talk:Citation Style 1. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 23:02, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
And (c) we should always prefer parameters that are intuitive. "acdate" is not. --Izno (talk) 23:08, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
And (IV), I think it's bad policy to accommodate editors who hit "Publish changes" and move on without checking their work. If an editor makes any of the errors listed in the OP, this is immediately and clearly apparent when they view the resulting citation. ―Mandruss  03:37, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
While pretty much agreeing with the above objections, in the unlikely event that an alias is approved, something like "checkdate" would be more intuitive. (talk) 16:04, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
Or "verify-date" .. |access-date= is basically in support of WP:V and emphasizing "verify" might nudge more verifications. -- GreenC 16:15, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

Bad idea per all above, and per previous discussion. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 18:17, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

template:better source not quoting arguments correctly in rendered HTML?

Take a look at Wormholes_in_fiction. I've got this template:

{{Better source|reason=The An Unauthorized Adventure source only mentions "wormhole" in the Glossary.  It's not clear if the supplied quote about transporting mass is intended to refer to the real world, or is an in-universe comment.|date=September 2018}}

In the In literature section, under His Dark Materials. This was entered using the visual editor. The rendered HTML is:

<span title=""The" about="">better source needed</span>

which results in a tooltip of "The when you mouse over it. Somebody's not handling the quotes properly. -- RoySmith (talk) 22:40, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

  • It looks like the problem should be in {{delink}}, which the parent metatemplate {{fix}} uses to sanitize tooltip text, but a quick test doesn't show that template messing things up on its own. I have a suspicion that this is caused by automatic HTML cleanup; that would suggest that a solution would be to migrate {{fix}} to Lua. Scribunto's HTML construction functions are basically always more reliable than writing conditional HTML properties in wikitext. {{Nihiltres |talk |edits}} 23:17, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
  • Never mind; it's the obvious case of quote marks just not being escaped:
    <span title="{{delink|Foo bar baz}}">Example with no quotes</span>
    Example with no quotes
    <span title="{{delink|Foo "bar" baz}}">Example with quotes</span>
    Example with quotes
    <span title="{{delink|Foo &#34;bar&#34; baz}}">Example with &amp;#34;</span>
    Example with &#34;
    <span title="{{delink|{{replace|Foo "bar" baz|"|&#34;}}}}">Example with {{tl|replace}}</span>
    Example with {{replace}}

As you can see, we could get around the problem by wrapping the title text in {{replace|string|"|&#34;}} {{Nihiltres |talk |edits}} 15:10, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

Use single quotes. Much easier. {{Better source|reason=The An Unauthorized Adventure source only mentions 'wormhole' in the Glossary. It's not clear if the supplied quote about transporting mass is intended to refer to the real world, or is an in-universe comment.|date=September 2018}}[better source needed] for which the HTML is
<sup class="noprint Inline-Template noprint noexcerpt Template-Fact" style="white-space:nowrap;">[<i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTRS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOTRS"><span title="The An Unauthorized Adventure source only mentions 'wormhole' in the Glossary. It's not clear if the supplied quote about transporting mass is intended to refer to the real world, or is an in-universe comment. (September 2018)">better&nbsp;source&nbsp;needed</span></a></i>]</sup>
The simple expln is that the |reason= parameter is putr into a title="..." attribute, with delimiting double quotes - hence the enclosed string cannot contain double quotes. Basic rule of HTML. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:29, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
Doing a string replace of (normal) quotation marks with single quote marks instead of &#34; sounds like it would work, and it's pretty elegant. Will it cause any unexpected side effects like the WP renderer attempting to insert italics if someone uses two quotation marks in a row? Humans screw up in so many creative ways. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:00, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
You cannot have italics (or markup of any kind, including styling) in a title= attribute. It's a plain text string which is not processed by the browser in any way. Some browsers use the attribute to generate a tooltip, but this must not be relied upon. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:24, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

Separate section for categories

Right now for most pages, categories live under a "See also" section, or "References" section. It would be interesting to hear, what people think of possible separation of the categories from last "text" section. This can be now emulated using empty == == (section header) as a section header for the separate section of categories. This way an [edit] link appears with empty <h2>...</h2> tag. —⁠andrybak (talk) 23:35, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

Why? --Izno (talk) 00:12, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
Izno, mainly to be able to easily distinguish (in History tab, Watchlist, etc) the changes to the text section (which just happens to be last=it includes the bottom of the page) and the changes to categories/navboxes/other content at the bottom of the page. —⁠andrybak (talk) 07:15, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
Categories are in none of those places. They are in a clearly-outlined box at the bottom (Vector, Monobook, Modern); shepherded to the upper right (Cologne Blue) or into the sidebar (Timeless); or just hidden outright (MinervaNeue). A heading would be either superfluous or misleading. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:46, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
Redrose64, thank you for your reply. I'm sorry if my original question is confusing. I mean the editing of categories and navboxes, not viewing them. For manual categorization, i.e. not by a template (gadgets, like HotCat and Cat-a-lot are also a bit relevant in this regard), the categories are gathered (usually) at the bottom of the page, meaning that if you want to edit them in a "edit section" mode (and not "edit whole page" mode), you need to click [edit] link for the last section on the page, which results in an edit summary which is only technically true. —⁠andrybak (talk) 19:10, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
That is not a VPT matter, it is something for Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Layout, being the talk page of MOS:LAYOUT. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:33, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
The reason I'm asking here rather that on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Layout is because I don't want the layout change which I described in my original message. I would like it to be a separate section created through some technical means. Like preamble is always the zeroth section, I would like to have the last section be a separate thing for categories and/or navboxes. —⁠andrybak (talk) 21:23, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
MOS:LAYOUT describes five optional appendices (Works, See also, References, Further reading, External links) and a number of optional footers, only one of which is the list of categories (although stub templates usually emit a category, sometimes two or even three). The categories need not be last: the recommended order has stub templates after the cats, and in the pre-Wikidata era we then followed the stubs with the interlanguage links (some pages still have them, because of inexact correspondence). However some people prefer to put the navboxes after the stubs (see Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Layout#Navigation templates to the bottom). How would the MediaWiki software know where to put this automatic heading? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 08:22, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
It sounds like User:Andrybak actually wants to have page metadata handled as proper metadata, in which case all of this would be easy: separate tracking in the watchlist, MediaWiki would know exactly where to stick it, etc. Also, a missing colon in a wikitext interwiki link or when linking to a category wouldn't screw up everything. There is more information at mw:Requests for comment/Multi-Content Revisions.
(While I'm thinking about the differences between communities: This is a tech RFC, which is nothing like either a popular vote, or even an English Wikipedia RFC (although it's closer to the English Wikipedia's RFCs than to the German Wikipedia's). Anyone should free to contribute relevant examples of specific things you like/dislike about the current or future systems, or particular technical details, but skip anything that sounds like an overall thumbs-up or thumbs-down. So, for example, someone could say something like "One problem that I'm having with the current system is that category changes are hard to find in the watchlist, and I hope this project could improve that situation" or "I like the fact that right now, I can write an entire article offline, including adding categories, and I hope that this project wouldn't make that impossible". Those are both actionable use cases: for the first, someone might add "make it easier to identify category changes in the watchlist" to the project's list of requirements, and for the second, someone might find a way to let you add categories in the wikitext and then automagically convert them to the correct spot in the proposed database structure. However, "I support this proposal" or "I oppose this proposal", even if followed by a reason, might be ignored or even be irritating. A tech RFC is mostly about building a good solution for identified problems, instead of deciding whether people like it.) Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 15:32, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
Re-ping: User:Andrybak. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 15:33, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Very long infoboxes and mobile version - spoilers always expanded

I was looking at Galápagos tortoise with my phone. In the desktop version it looks fine but with the phone all the species and subspecies synonyms are expanded with no option to collapse them; the infobox is shown strictly before the main text (apart from the first paragraph) so you have to scroll past that to get to the main text. Information that hardly anyone will care about takes up 24 screens (counted on my phone). Is there a better solution for this? It was discussed on the talk page a while ago without conclusion. It could affect other articles as well. If there is no better way we could put the synonyms into the main article text then mobile users can hide it. -- (talk) 03:49, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

I think the WMF engineers are working on making collapsibility work on mobile right now. That aside, this is a case where it might be a good idea to add a section for the synonmyns and for the infobox to link to the section, instead of having 50-100 some odd list items all in the infobox (which look quite silly in desktop too!). --Izno (talk) 03:56, 11 September 2018 (UTC)


Is there any difference in operating WP:AWB and WP:PyAWB.--PATH SLOPU (Talk) 16:23, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

@Reedy: this is one for you. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 14:56, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
I doubt PyAWB even works, it's not been touched for 9 years. [1] Reedy (talk) 22:04, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
@Reedy:Can I use PyAWB instead of AWB. Please help.--PATH SLOPU (Talk) 01:35, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
Try it, if it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. However, see the response above: this is pretty much outdated abandonware, and will most likely fail epically in several places, and make edits that no longer have consensus, or which are no longer valid. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 01:41, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
@Headbomb:Thank you for your advice. Sir, I queried about this because I would like to use AWB for my bot. But I am using linux. I tried to install wine with software centre and get-apt. But I couldn't install it because of some technical problems. Is there any alternate way for that. Sir, please help.PATH SLOPU (Talk) 15:53, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
@Path slopu: Just so you know, you don't need to call people 'sir' or 'madam' or whatever every time you post somewhere. We're all equals here. Just call people by their username and talk to them normally. As for what to do with Wine or PyAWB, I suspect the best place to get advice would be at WT:AWB. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 16:58, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
@Path slopu: You could try building your bot with Pywikibot instead. --Ahecht (TALK
) 17:07, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
Ahecht - FYI Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Pathbot — fr+ 05:50, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
@Headbomb, Ahecht, and FR30799386:I placed my doubt in WT:AWB. I used pywikibot in earlier time. But I understood that AWB is more better than python for doing my bot's task to avoid mistakes. So I tried for AWB.PATH SLOPU (Talk) 09:12, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
@Headbomb, Ahecht, and FR30799386:Hi greetings, I added a request for using JWB for my bot in WP:PERM/AWB. Is it correct? Am I place the request in correct page? Kindly please help.--PATH SLOPU (Talk) 12:11, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Cross-page diff?

Is it possible to get a diff between two different pages? As far as I can tell, you can only diff between two revisions of the same page. The only workaround I can see is to copy-paste the two pages into my sandbox as two revisions, then diff those. -- RoySmith (talk) 20:11, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

@RoySmith: That or Duplication Detector, if that's your goal. If not, then your idea's probably the best (unless there's some reason why you wouldn't want to do that). Ian.thomson (talk) 20:14, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
Actually, you can. Just get a regular diff link, and then get the revision ID of the other page and replace the appropriate ID in the URL. For example, — Preceding unsigned comment added by SarekOfVulcan (talkcontribs) 20:16, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
Ah, cool. Thanks! -- RoySmith (talk) 20:23, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
Or one can use Special:ComparePages Galobtter (pingó mió) 20:25, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
This is what I would have suggested. It's how the edit protected template works for template comparison between live and sandbox. --Izno (talk) 21:08, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
Yes, when you make the query string for a diff and you provide the oldid= and diff= parameters, the title= parameter is ignored. This is why a mis-copied URL for a diff (such as where one digit of a parameter is omitted) can produce very odd results - compare this (which is correct) with this (which lacks the final 5). --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:30, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

Template doubt

My doubt is: In this template(called as ഫലകം in malayalam) why does ഫലകം:SHORTDESC appear in red line below the main heading even though the code has been pasted directly from English wikipedia?Adithyak1997 (talk) 03:14, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

The SHORTDESC magic word is not enabled on the Malayalam Wikipedia, only the English Wikipedia. — JJMC89(T·C) 04:04, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
How can it be used in Malayalam wikipedia?I mean the place where it can be done.Adithyak1997 (talk) 08:39, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
@Adithyak1997: That's Phabricator. You've to made a request and if it's approved it'll be enabled. You can read how to made the request here. –Ammarpad (talk) 11:02, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
Will there be any condition that the wikipedia has its permission to use it but I don't have access to it?Adithyak1997 (talk) 11:24, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
I don't understand what you mean. If you need the {{SHORTDESC}} to work on Malayalam Wikipedia, file a request at Phabricator, that's the only place from where it can be enabled. That's it. –Ammarpad (talk) 13:28, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

@Adithyak1997: On wikis other than the English Wikipedia, short descriptions are handled entirely by Wikidata. Earlier this year, there was community consensus on this wiki not to use short descriptions from Wikidata. Jc86035 (talk) 13:59, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedia type:landmark page with obscure subdivision

Point Hicks is in Category:Wikipedia type:landmark page with obscure subdivision, but I can't work out why. Can anyone enlighten me? TIA. DH85868993 (talk) 04:46, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Related to BrandonXLF's recent edits to Module:ISO 3166, though I can't figure out exactly what is causing this since the code in that module itself doesn't appear to produce this category.. Galobtter (pingó mió) 05:06, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
If anyone has more time, I've replicated this in Special:PermaLink/859195974 (feel free to edit that sandbox) and expand templates is including that string twice:
|<span style="white-space:nowrap;"><span class="plainlinks nourlexpansion">[//[[Category:Wikipedia_type:landmark page with obscure subdivision]] <span class="geo-default"><span class="geo-dms" title="Maps, aerial photos, and other data for this location"><span class="latitude">37°48′11″S</span> <span class="longitude">149°16′32″E</span></span></span><span class="geo-multi-punct"> / </span><span class="geo-nondefault"><span class="geo-dec" title="Maps, aerial photos, and other data for this location">37.80306°S 149.27556°E</span><span style="display:none"> / <span class="geo">-37.80306; 149.27556</span></span></span>]</span><span style="font-size: small;"><span id="coordinates">[[Geographic coordinate system|Coordinates]]: <span class="plainlinks nourlexpansion">[//[[Category:Wikipedia_type:landmark page with obscure subdivision]] <span class="geo-default"><span class="geo-dms" title="Maps, aerial photos, and other data for this location"><span class="latitude">37°48′11″S</span> <span class="longitude">149°16′32″E</span></span></span><span class="geo-multi-punct"> / </span><span class="geo-nondefault"><span class="geo-dec" title="Maps, aerial photos, and other data for this location">37.80306°S 149.27556°E</span><span style="display:none"> / <span class="geo">-37.80306; 149.27556</span></span></span>]</span></span></span></span> 
xaosflux Talk 11:35, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
Narrowing it down helped; the problem arises in {{Geobox2_coor}}, where the hidden category is passed to Module:Coordinates Galobtter (pingó mió) 11:54, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
  • Note for anyone following, this is still broken. — xaosflux Talk 15:22, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
It looks like the page has a subdivision with a non ISO recognized subdivion, this putting it in that category. I did recently make a catroy called Category:pages with obscure subdivision and Category:Wikipedia type:landmark page with obscure country or subdivision exist. So suspect it's taking the input from Module:ISO 3166 and converting it to this category. I'm going to create the category page, as if this is the case if better to have it as it may get big if the subdivision are wrong. – BrandonXLF ([email protected]) 20:44, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
Also, as this seams on topic, I'm wondering if I should make it so if the subdivision in Module:ISO 3166 is wrong it only displays the country and ignore the incorrect subdivision. Please ping me if you have any comments about the idea. – BrandonXLF ([email protected]) 20:47, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

BrandonXLF is now adding GB data to Module:ISO 3166/data/National but it is generating damaging errors in articles that use it such as Snowdonia. Can someone else take a look at it as I’m out of reverts, and from past experience I know I won’t be able to persuade him to stop experimenting with live and widely used templates.--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 20:33, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

JohnBlackburne The error are fixed. If there's a error please show me an example so I can fix the issue. I did testing in the sandbox, and I can't see any errors. – BrandonXLF ([email protected]) 20:34, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
See e.g. Punghina. With your rapid fire untested changes errors articles have been coming and going from the category Category:Pages with script errors, faster than I can check them.--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 20:58, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
This discussion doesn't seam relevant here, and the page Punghina has nothing to do with my recent edits. Can you move this to a more relevant talk page or make a new discussion here? – BrandonXLF ([email protected]) 21:25, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
The error now seems fixed – it was in Module:ISO 3166 and arose after one of your changes so, yes, it had to do with your recent edits. In the recent ANI discussion it was recommended you test all edits using e.g. template sandbox pages and testcases, and seek consensus before making changes to existing templates. But here you are again, introducing untested/improperly tested changes to templates used on many thousands of pages, without seeking consensus or even explaining your changes.--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 21:55, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Last reminder: read-only mode 14:00 UTC

Hi, the last (Village Pump) reminder for this: Because of a server test, to make sure we're prepared and can keep the wikis alive in case of a catastrophe, it won't be possible to edit the wikis for up to an hour, starting at (or slightly later than) 14:00 UTC. For more information, see m:Tech/Server switch 2018. /Johan (WMF) (talk) 12:15, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Sure would be nice to be able to dismiss the notice.--Bbb23 (talk) 13:34, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
It's in "emergency" priority, so no dismissing for you! We could change it, but you know -- database locked :D — xaosflux Talk 13:46, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
Bbb23 Checking "Suppress display of CentralNotices" in gadgets disables it Galobtter (pingó mió) 13:50, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
Wouldn't that suppress all notices, e.g., some foolish editor has been nominated for RfA?--Bbb23 (talk) 14:37, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
@Bbb23: no only "CentralNotices" from meta: (meta:Special:CentralNotice) , not things like watchlist notices etc. And correction on my above, it's not that it was "emergency priority", just that a "close button" was not included. — xaosflux Talk 14:40, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
Clearly a conspiracy to make me suffer. Even my shrink agrees with me (the bill for her services will be sent to the Foundation).--Bbb23 (talk) 15:11, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
It looks like this took only 7.5 minutes, compared to the 20+ that we've seen in previous years. Last year, they were previosuly talking about a theoretical minimum time being around five minutes (because there are certain steps that have a built-in time delay for safety), so this may be the best we ever see in practice. I'm impressed. (Also, very glad that it all happened while I was still asleep. ;-) I haven't seen any reports of editing problems; feel free to ping me or Johan if there are problem reports elsewhere. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:40, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Please remind me why I have a read button on my menu

It's just to the left of the edit button. Vector skin. Doug Weller talk 13:19, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

@Doug Weller: I've always figured it was for when you're editing or viewing the history and you decide "nah, I'd rather read it." It's redundant with the "article" or "project page" tab that's to the left of the "talk" button. Ian.thomson (talk) 13:30, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
@Doug Weller: it's not just you, a "read tab" is default in Vector. If you are in edit mode it may be a handy way to cancel editing and return to reading. — xaosflux Talk 13:31, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
FWIW some people want to give "edit" precedence for display, see phab:T119871 and phab:T113157. — xaosflux Talk 13:33, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
It's not a button. It's a tab. There are several tabs and their selection is mutual exclusive (you cannot read and edit at the same time). —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 14:02, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
Thanks all. Damn, I know they are tabs, brain fart. I can't leave a page I'm editing without clicking on confirm, which is probably why it never made sense to me. 14:20, 13 September 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doug Weller (talkcontribs)

How to disable redirects just for me

Is there a setting or user-script which would I could set to not follow redirects when clicking on links to them? — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 20:48, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

@Frayae: you can use this:
    var oldhref = $(this).attr('href');
    var newhref = ( /\?/.test(oldhref) ) ? oldhref + '&redirect=no' : oldhref + '?redirect=no';
    $(this).attr('href', newhref);
Lifted from Wikipedia talk:User scripts/Archive 6 by User:Evad37. — xaosflux Talk 21:44, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
Thanks! Face-smile.svgFrayæ (Talk/Spjall) 22:00, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

I accidentally removed half my watchlist

Well, yeah, I tried to edit my raw watchlist to trim it a bit but I didn't notice only half of it was loaded. So when I clicked save, 3,000 pages were gone. Is there any way to restore them (aside from remembering the pages and manually readding them)? Regards SoWhy 10:56, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

Unfortunately, that's not possible AFAIK. Only Developers can retrieve that kind of data. –Ammarpad (talk) 18:20, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
Ammarpad, actually they can't either. Well, in theory some system administrators probably can, by opening the vault with the backups, but I don't think that has ever been done for something as small an issue like this. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 21:17, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
@Ammarpad and TheDJ: Thanks for the replies. I'll trout Self-trout then and take it as a sign to slim down my Watchlist. Regards SoWhy 06:06, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Unclosed tags

There seems to have been a change made recently which is causing unclosed formatting tags to remain unclosed in the underlying HTML, instead of how it seems it used to work that the software would close these tags when it found them. The result is that there are many old discussions where, for example, someone didn't close a strikeout tag, and every bit of text below their comment is now struck out, making it difficult to read and follow. I've been editing archives where I find instances of these errors, but I can't edit an old revision. Can this be fixed? Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 12:29, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

See this thread in the archives. There is a new replacement for Tidy, which used to hide / clean up bad markup. Some gnomes are working on fixing pages, but there are a few million errors, so it will take a while. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:20, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
@Ivanvector: There is currently a BRFA running at Wikipedia:Bots/Requests_for_approval/Galobot for a bot that will fix errors such as <s>...<s> instead of <s>...</s> (like on the page you linked), but for cases of simply missing end tags its best to just fix them as you find them since it's hard for a bot to judge intent. --Ahecht (TALK
) 19:58, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
in regards to old revisions which appears to be the question by Ivanvector, probably somebody could code a JS script that could fix some of it, apart from that I don't think it can/would be fixed Galobtter (pingó mió) 20:05, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
If I get annoyed enough by this, I'm going to write a script where you can click on a location in the text to mark the proper end of a strikeout, without having to dig through many kilobytes worth of archive text. Enterprisey (talk!) 20:22, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
Regarding old revisions, I'm also kind of okay with "you'll just have to live with it". At worst it's kind of annoying. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 20:37, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

List modules that "require" a module

I've been looking at Lua modules on WP and I'm wondering how I can find out which modules call a particular module in their code. For example, how do I find out which modules require (if any at all) the List module? "What links here" doesn't appear to help. Thanks.—Cpt.a.haddock (talk) (please ping when replying) 17:04, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

Cpt.a.haddock, a search works for doing this Galobtter (pingó mió) 17:17, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
@Galobtter: That looks good. Cheers!—Cpt.a.haddock (talk) (please ping when replying) 17:25, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

Template:Pie chart appearance

See the discussion here. Thank you. --Hddty. (talk) 06:31, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Wrong code in infoboxes for languages

Someone in WP:RD/L has reported that the infoboxes on the pages Dutch language, English language, German language, and Korean language all currently show the ISO 639-1 code for the respective languages as "hh". Since the "iso1" codes shown on each page are correct, this has to be a bug in whatever it is that "{{Infobox language}}" invokes. Someone who understands this, please fix. -- (talk) 09:17, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

I just reverted this IP edit to {{ISO639-1}}. It has 224 transclusions which isn't a great deal but perhaps an admin would like to add some protection. Johnuniq (talk) 09:27, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
Thanks, John! -- (talk) 20:19, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
Airplaneman has protected the redirect against IP. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:17, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Thumbnail too dark?

Picture of Bell Labs Model V, circa 1947
Picture of Bell Labs Model V, circa 1947

We've got an image, File:Bell Relay Computer.png. It looks reasonably well exposed, if somewhat low contrast. I can see detail in the technician's white shirt, and even a little in his black shoes.

In Model V, we use that as a thumbnail. Here, the image looks highly underexposed. The technician is barely visible in the shadows. Is this loss of dynamic range an inevitable result of the size reduction? Is there anything that can be done to improve this? I can certainly download the image to my box, adjust things there, and upload a new copy, but I'm thinking more of something I can do within the wikimedia system. And something that will work across all image sizes. -- RoySmith (talk) 13:37, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Top image is 240px, bottom is 241px. I think this is phab:T68337. Galobtter (pingó mió) 14:00, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
Actually phab:T106516 seems to be it. Galobtter (pingó mió) 14:17, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
It's really inexcusable that this bug has gone on for over three years without a fix. --Ahecht (TALK
) 15:06, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
If you think that's bad; the company I last worked for left their private servers wide open to the internet for four years. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 19:08, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Regex editor trespassing

How do I get rid of this and put OhConfucius' Engvar B back please? Keith-264 (talk) 16:08, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

@Ohconfucius: somewhat recently updated User:Ohconfucius/script/EngvarB.js and may be able to help here. — xaosflux Talk 17:21, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
Thanks I've left a message. Keith-264 (talk) 17:59, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
I don't understand why this is happening, nor can I offer an explanation at this point. However, I did manage to get the script buttons by importing my monobook script. Perhaps you can try doing that instead of importing the EngvarB script? Please note that you will get maybe five sets of Engvar script buttons. Not ideal, I know, but at least they appear. Face-wink.svg -- Ohc ¡digame! 07:55, 15 September 2018 (UTC)


Both my original posting and this simple edit in this thread required a captcha. Is that intended? I wasn't posting any external links, for example. (And I see that this new posting, too, is requiring one.)

(Please reply here, not to this IP address's talk page.) -- (talk) 20:22, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

G with a macron below

Hi, why doesn't the "Special characters" table (or the Latin extended set) in the editor have an underlined G? The {{underline}} template does produce something similar in G, but that is accomplished using CSS. Any alternatives? Thanks.—Cpt.a.haddock (talk) (please ping when replying) 21:02, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Unicode doesn't have a precomposed character of G with a macron below. So you would have to use the combining diacritic U+0331 ◌̱ , as in "G̱". Nardog (talk) 21:14, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
Thank you.—Cpt.a.haddock (talk) (please ping when replying) 21:26, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
More at Macron below#Precomposed characters. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:00, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Using the Search box and limit results to not include redirects

I'm trying to do a search using "intitle:", but I wish to only get actual article titles and not redirects. I tried searching for information at Help:Searching, but couldn't find any. Hope someone here can help me out. Thanks. --Gonnym (talk) 21:09, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

@Gonnym: If you are searching for articles beginning with a specific string, you can look at this page which does appear to provide an option to hide redirects. I'm unsure if there's a corresponding page that handles titles containing a specific string.—Cpt.a.haddock (talk) (please ping when replying) 21:30, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
@Cpt.a.haddock: I'm trying to find titles using certain disambiguations. So "intitle" works for that, but then it just gives me all the redirects as well which defeat the purpose of my search. Prefix won't help here. --Gonnym (talk) 21:35, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
I was having this problem also, likely for a similar reason. It would be very nice if I could discard results from redirects. I think phab:T73491 probably blocks any similar functionality. --Izno (talk) 22:39, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

There's a script SearchSuite by The Transhumanist that can hide redirect results, and make various other improvements/adjustments to search result pages - Evad37 [talk] 12:07, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Amazing! Thank you very much! --Gonnym (talk) 12:17, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
You are welcome. :)    — The Transhumanist   12:25, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
@Izno and Gonnym: From SearchSuite's documentation:
SR redirecteds
Turning this off doesn't just remove the notes that say "redirect from", it removes the entire entries that include those notes. It also removes entries of items from related categories, and the results that match subheadings.
Turning it back on, adds those items back onto the list.
This feature helps narrow search results down to the topic entered.
I hope you find it useful.    — The Transhumanist   12:25, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
So far it is. The way Wikipedia's system is set-up is mind blowing to me. Instead of creating a system where a title and a disambiguation are two separate entities, they are just another string in the system. This made searching for incorrect usages extremely hard. Thanks again for creating this! --Gonnym (talk) 12:30, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Watchlist filter and Twinkle not loading in Chrome

I've experienced several issues in Chrome over the past week.

  1. The watchlist filter does not load. Just gets stuck on the three loading dots permanently.
  2. Twinkle doesn't load when I open a article.
  3. I'm unable to open any collapsed navboxes. The "show" links are just not present.

I'm not experiencing these issues in other browsers (Edge and IE). --The1337gamer (talk) 09:52, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

It works for me. Google Chrome 69.0.3497.92, Windows 10, Vector. What is your skin at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering? Does work? Do navboxes work if you log out? PrimeHunter (talk) 10:18, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
Also on Chrome 69.0.3497.92, Windows 10, Vector. Had to check the skin on Edge because I can't actually access Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering on Google Chrome since the tabs on Preferences don't load either when I select them. Watchlist filter is missing from that safe mode link and collapsed navboxes also don't work when I log out. --The1337gamer (talk) 10:35, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
It sounds like a browser problem with JavaScript. Does say JavaScript is enabled? Try to clear your entire cache. Does JavaScript work at other sites? Do you have Chrome extensions or security settings which may disable or cripple JavaScript at some sites? If you make tests at Wikipedia then I suggest being logged out. If navboxes work when logged out then you can test whether all is well when you log in. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:40, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
This happened to me and was caused by uBlock Origin. — JJMC89(T·C) 16:23, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
It seems it is the AdBlock extension on Chrome causing it for me. I've added Wikipedia to the whitelist filter and the issues are now resolved. Thanks for the help both of you. --The1337gamer (talk) 16:56, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

Specific Inquiry about Data on Mathematics Portal

On the Portal:Mathematics page (, there is a claim that "There are approximately 31,444 mathematics articles on Wikipedia. I'm curious about how Wikipedians have gone about estimating this number. Can someone point me in the right direction to find the answer? I looked at WikiData, but did not find enough of a robust dataset that could support this high count reported on the Portal.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 001JakubSvec (talkcontribs) 04:12, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

I've removed the statement. The count hadn't been updated since 2015. — JJMC89(T·C) 04:34, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
JJMC89, thank you for the speedy update, but I was mostly curious about how Wikipedia determined that in the first place, even if it was in 2015 that it determined that statistic. -001JakubSvec — Preceding unsigned comment added by 001JakubSvec (talkcontribs) 12:26, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
This example was kept at Wikipedia:WikiProject Mathematics/Count. The page history [2] shows it was updated by a bot until 16 June 2015‎. The edit summaries only said "daily update from wikilabs". Other examples have used counts of articles tagged by a WikiProject. Wikipedia:WikiProject Mathematics uses {{Maths rating}} but it only has around 17,000 transclusions. Category:Mathematics articles by quality gives the same total. I don't know where the bot counted the extra articles. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:04, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Copying on tablets and smartphones

There’s an unresolved issue about copying content on devices such as tablets (iPads and etc) we need an extension that lets us copy all the content of a page at once without having to scroll through each line for copying, for example you have to sell yourself to Satan to copy a page like this on a tablet, and to people like myself who contribute mostly using tablets, this is annoying as heck. It would be really cool if we had some sort of “select and copy all” tool, developed either by a user or Wikimedia.--▸ ‎épine talk 08:48, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

@Épine: are you using the app/mobile view/desktop view/etc? If not using the app, are you only having this issue with certain browsers? — xaosflux Talk 16:15, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
@Xaosflux: I’m using desktop mode on an iPad, Safari browser. I rarely edit using the wiki app. The browser is not an issue, the way the apple products are designed to copy content is. This issue can be easily resolved with a small and quick tool that can either be developed by a user or the wikimedia foundation. I don’t know why this issue keeps getting overlooked.--▸ ‎épine talk 18:36, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
The Editing team has been talking about some problems with mobile editing. Épine, would you mind leaving a note at mw:Talk:Mobile editing using the visual editor report about this? It's not strictly on topic, but I think it'll be the best way to make sure that everyone on the team sees it. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:38, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
@Whatamidoing (WMF): I don’t think it’s appropriate to address this issue there. I think they’re talking about the visual editor which I never use, I only use source editor. If you can address it on my behalf I would appreciate it.--▸ ‎épine talk 18:55, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
Épine, at the moment, they're mostly talking about basic problems with using mobile devices, including copying and pasting, so I'm sure they'd be interested. (Presumably Safari's copying/pasting system is the same on all of the editing tools on Wikipedia.) I can certainly talk to them for you, if that's what you prefer. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 21:01, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
@Whatamidoing (WMF): you have a higher chance of being listened to (made some other requests that are left unanswered for some reason) so please do so and warn them about this issue. On PC you can just ctl+a and select everything while on tablets on phones you can’t execute an action like that. Note that copying from protected pages is even worse. Thank you.—▸ ‎épine talk 22:15, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Oddity with navigation popups

This has been brought up at WP:ERRORS today. At Template:Did_you_know, the last hook of the day contains a link to Crime Does Not Pay (comics). If I hover over this link, the preview actually shows me the "Spinoffs" paragraph of the article, instead of the lede as you would expect. This happens in Firefox, Edge and Chrome. However, on all three of those browsers, if I log out, it works correctly. I am on Windows Home 10.0.17134. Black Kite (talk) 09:24, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Black Kite, does it work now? Works for me now after this which I think allows navpopups to detect the bold lead instead of skipping to the bold text in Crime_Does_Not_Pay_(comics)#Spinoffs Galobtter (pingó mió) 09:36, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
Also, when you're logged out, mw:Page_Previews is used which is different from Wikipedia:Tools/Navigation_popups Galobtter (pingó mió) 09:39, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
Seems to be working for me now (I am the editor who first raised ths at ERRORS). Thanks all for the help. DuncanHill (talk) 13:39, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
Yes, it works for me now as well, thanks. It's still a bug, though, isn't it? Black Kite (talk) 18:15, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Tech News: 2018-38

21:57, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Feedback wanted on mobile web contribution prototype

CKoerner (WMF) (talk) 15:34, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

IAdmin access request for User:Pharos

A request for Interface administrator access under the stop-gap process for User:Pharos is currently open at Wikipedia_talk:Interface_administrators#IAdmin_temporary_access_request_for_User:Pharos. Community commentary on the request is welcome at that page. Best regards, — xaosflux Talk 18:05, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Audio recording software

Anybody have any recommendations for a (preferably) free open source software for recording/editing spoken audio recordings of articles? I would have posted this at WikiProject Spoken Wikipedia, but it seems pretty dagum dead there. GMGtalk 18:57, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Audacity is quite popular lately and simple to use (it's not necessarily for voice recordings only, however). —PaleoNeonate – 19:37, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
If I'm not mistaken I think I used Audacity some ten-odd years ago in college, but I don't remember it having any kind of editing functionality. My intuition was to do two takes and splice the paragraphs together for which ever was the better take. But the last time I messed with audio editing I was (again) in college, and I don't own any fancy pants software anymore. GMGtalk 19:41, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
Audacity does allow editing audio, and it should allow doing what you want re splicing pretty easily Galobtter (pingó mió) 21:47, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
@GreenMeansGo:. Second Audacity. Standard tool used by the LibriVox community. A helpful page. -- GreenC 13:34, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
I downloaded it last night and did a couple of test runs. But I'm going to have to dig through the stacks of boxes that are the remnants of my music room to find one of my old USB mics. The mic on my laptop bottoms out on any subtle inflection and basically records nothing. GMGtalk 13:41, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Prefs change

OOUI continues its march; see for the latest. AFAICT some of the sections look just about the same, and some (especially the first) are more obviously different. Remember that the content isn't changing; it's just things like the size of the buttons and the color of the tabs.

Also, there's at least one feature that's likely to be useful: You can now give people a link to the relevant sub-section, not just the tab. This means that the WP:AFD instructions can be updated to tell people to go to "" to turn on Twinkle (for example), rather than just to the gadgets tab, and then to scroll around until you find it. Later, that team is hoping to change things so that individual items (e.g., the Twinkle button itself) can be linked and highlighted. So there's some good news here. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 21:06, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

You can also test this locally at Special:Preferences and tacking ?ooui=1 to the end of the URL. --Izno (talk) 21:42, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Watchlist updating itself

If this a new feature? If so, why was it implemented? I don't want my watchlist updating itself, especially when I'm in the process of catching up on my watchlist. It's annoying having to find the spot I was at time and again. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 23:12, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

This could be one of two things:
  • There was a gadget or user script lying around which implemented this. Verify you aren't loading one of those.
  • This is part of the recent (a few months ago) watchlist improvements. You can verify those are turned on if there is no checkmark at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-watchlist. Either a) you can opt out there entirely for all improvements or b) you can go to the watchlist itself, find the button that says "Live updates", and press it, such that a triangle ("play") displays after, rather than a square ("stop").
--Izno (talk) 23:29, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
Thanks, Izno. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 00:14, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

A technical request

Is there a way to find instances of {{infobox song}} where certain fields are not filled in? I sometimes find instances where at least one of the genre, label, writer, or producer is not filled in, and would like to work on filling those in where possible, as I just did on Jump Around. Ten Pound Hammer(What did I screw up now?) 23:38, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

There's an external tool or two lying around which list parameters which are unused, but I don't know if unused in specific templates... You could use AWB, search for "hastemplate:infobox song", and then set it to skip when it detects | *paraname *= *.* or something like that. --Izno (talk) 23:53, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
If those are required (or very nice to have) parameters, it might be worth it to add a tracking category for parameters that are missing. For an example of such a category, see Category:Comics infobox missing language parameter. If you need help, post on the template's talk page and ping me. I'll stop by. – Jonesey95 (talk) 09:19, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
TenPoundHammer, see templates with missing genre and missing writer. One can't find instances missing the other two parameters using this tool because they aren't set as "suggested" parameters in the WP:TemplateData for {{infobox song}} (though one could change that and it'll come in next month's report) Galobtter (pingó mió) 09:31, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Is tools.wmflabs down?

Greetings, for several days now when attempting to run and getting "504 Gateway Time-out" instead. Not sure who to contact so I thought to start here at VPT. Regards, JoeHebda • (talk) 13:25, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

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