Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)

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The technical section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Wikipedia. Bug reports and feature requests should be made in Phabricator (see how to report a bug). Bugs with security implications should be reported differently (see how to report security bugs).

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Database error when clearing watchlist

Starting about a week or so ago, with some frequency when I go to mark my watchlist as being taken care of, I get a database error. The most recent one said:

A database query error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software.[WfaDTQpAICoAAC8eu7IAAAAS] 2017-10-30 01:41:33: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBQueryError"

The watchlist is properly cleared anyway, and this doesn't happen every time, but I thought I'd report it just in case it was significant in some way.

Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:45, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I've also been seeing similar errors much more frequently. Mine usually occur when refreshing my watchlist. Here's the latest: [WfclJwpAAEUAAEEpVwsAAADO] 2017-10-30 13:13:07: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBQueryTimeoutError" olderwiser 13:17, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
Still happening to me, yesterday, and just now. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:04, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
Beyond My Ken and Bkonrad, do you use the Beta feature "New filters for edit review"? Trizek (WMF) (talk) 08:41, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
I do not, no. Beyond My Ken (talk) 09:15, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
No, I don't either. although I'll note that this error has not occurred for the past couple of days. Before that it was happening with some frequency. olderwiser 09:54, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
I can discern no rhyme or reason for when it does and does not occur. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:11, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
Nex time you have that issue, please follow those instructions to see what is the issue. Trizek (WMF) (talk) 10:51, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
That's really not all that helpful, as once I clear the watchlist, which generates the database query error, the database is cleared, and there's no way to check anything as suggested by the page you've pointed us to. What I don't understand is that both Bkonrad and I have quoted an error code here - shouldn't that tell you where the problem is? Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:45, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
Beyond My Ken, I'm most of time that kind of issues are related to gadgets or scripts that are broken. That may be the case for you too, so I advice you to use that link to explore your watchlist and then clear it. Do you still have that issue? How many items do you have in your watchlist (on average)? Trizek (WMF) (talk) 10:06, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Article stats table Problem

I’ve never used Village Pump before so hope I’m posting this note in right place. Here’s the issue…for the past several days the following message comes up when I try to access data links highlighted in Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Oregon articles by quality statistics table:

"There was an error connecting to the database. This is most likely a temporary condition. Please try again in a few minutes. If the problem persists, please contact User:CBM on enwiki. The error message is: Unknown database 'p50380g50494_data' WP 1.0 bot revision 541, updated Sat, 6 Dec 2014 by theopolisme"

I went to User:CBM talk page, but answer to previous query says CBM is no longer involved in maintaining that wiki-system. Is there any one out there who can fix this? Variations of this table are used by many Wiki-Projects.--Orygun (talk) 19:57, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Try User:theopolisme. — xaosflux Talk 21:26, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
It is possibly related to this hardware failure. — JJMC89(T·C) 21:39, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
A query has also been raised at Wikipedia_talk:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Index#Error_Messages...Jokulhlaup (talk) 14:52, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
Reporting that this issue continues, for example at Wikipedia:WikiProject Catholicism/Assessment. Regards, JoeHebda • (talk) 14:04, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
In addition, the process to update Assessment tables is broken. Update project data - Wikipedia Release Version Tools at url JoeHebda • (talk) 20:28, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Wondering if anyone is working on fixing this issue? What changed to cause this error? It used to work perfectly. JoeHebda • (talk) 00:29, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

I think User:JJMC89 got it right. Someone is working on it, but it will probably take a week or so. See my reply at [[1]]. (BTW, that page is the best one to report any technical problems with the assessment bot.) Walkerma (talk) 01:28, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Searching for and retrieving references

I would like to tidy up references on various articles. I can readily generate a list of the articles I want to look at. Is there any way of retrieving the references for these articles in bulk, for example like a search result. Eno Lirpa (talk) 11:20, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

Not yet, but i believe the reading team is working on an API for this for mobile. Probably still some time out though. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 15:23, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
Thanks. Eno Lirpa (talk) 10:51, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
Just dropping a note here. This is the task where the work is being tracked. The team was just talking about it this morning. What a serendipitous event. CKoerner (WMF) (talk) 21:21, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Regex help wanted

I'm working on PHP code to find {{About}}, {{For}}, and {{Redirect}} hatnotes.

 if (preg_match("/\{{2}(About|For|Redirect)\s*\|+[^}]*\}{2}/iu", $pagecontents, $m)) {

is matching most hatnotes correctly, but runs into a problem with:

{{About|the church in [[Aleppo]], [[Syria]]|other churches with the same name|Church of the Holy Mother of God (disambiguation){{!}}Church of the Holy Mother of God}}

the matched string is truncated at the end of the embedded template:

{{About|the church in [[Aleppo]], [[Syria]]|other churches with the same name|Church of the Holy Mother of God (disambiguation){{!}}

How can I tweak the regex to include the embedded template when scanning to the end of the hatnote template? Thanks, wbm1058 (talk) 18:28, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

@Wbm1058: There's a magic regex for this at Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/Regular expression#Token matching. Adapting this for your example, \{{2}(About|For|Redirect)\s*\|+([^{]|\{[^{]|\{\{[^{}]+\}\})*\}{2} seems to do the job in AWB's regex tester window. I've never played with PHP, though. -- John of Reading (talk) 22:02, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
Thanks!! That did the trick. – wbm1058 (talk) 23:38, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
FWIW, I found a similar question at Stack Overflow: Can regular expressions be used to match nested patterns? which gets all theoretical with explaining that it's impossible to support infinite nested templates without blowing thru your memory limits. I'll assume that checking for just a single-level-nesting is adequate, until I run into a "gotcha" use case that shows that's insufficient. wbm1058 (talk) 23:51, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

That regex isn't very efficient. In my testing I found that maybe a third of my test cases weren't working, and it was a bear for me to find out why as the ones that failed seemed kind of random. After much frustration, I finally checked the error code (I know, good coders should always check for errors ;) and found it was returning PREG_JIT_STACKLIMIT_ERROR for the ones that failed. Error codes The new PREG_JIT_STACKLIMIT_ERROR constant introduced with PHP 7.0.0 – I guess I either write a more efficient regex or disable the PCRE JIT via php.ini (pcre.jit=0). Running that in the AWB regex tester I see that it's stacking them up one character at a time. Someone's twitter discussing a similar problem: "It was creating a capture group for every single character in the string and blowing out of memory" – Help writing a more efficient regex would be appreciated. wbm1058 (talk) 04:06, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Can you use non-capturing parentheses groups: (?: ...stuff... ) isaacl (talk) 04:17, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
Another thing that can be done is limiting backtracking via a technique called "unrolling the loop". The end of the pattern that matches the contents before the closing "}}" is of the form (?:caseA|caseB)*, where caseA is [^}] – anything but an opening brace – and caseB is \{[^{]|\{\{[^{}]+\}\} – either an opening brace followed by non-opening brace, or a pattern matching a template inclusion without any nested templates. This can be transformed into caseA*(?:caseBcaseA*)*, which can be thought of matching caseA first, then multiple repetitions of (one caseB plus zero or more caseA's). By eliminating the alternation, the pattern can only match one way, and backtracking is eliminated. For this particular case, since case B is an alternation itself, it could in turn be unrolled into case C and D, with an end result of caseA*(?:caseC*(?:caseDcaseC*)*caseA*)*. But the problem is the pattern within the first set of parentheses consists of a sequence of zero-or-more matches, which introduces a new source of backtracking. So the regexp would have to be tweaked to avoid this (the pattern in the parentheses needs to be anchored with some patterns that don't have a zero-or-more quantifier). However I suggest starting with the single unrolled loop first. isaacl (talk) 04:54, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
Out of curiosity, what is the sanity of simply matching the templates simply to the end of the line? -- The Voidwalker Whispers 05:04, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
I'm guessing you're not actually directing this question to me? I haven't looked specifically at uses of the About/For/Redirect templates, but for some other templates, it is common to have line breaks before the pipe character that separates template arguments. isaacl (talk) 05:12, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
Right, while it would be very unusual to put line breaks in a hatnote template, it's not syntactically illegal. More common is placing multiple hatnote templates on a single line. wbm1058 (talk) 17:40, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
First I tried just making it non-capturing (grouping-only) parenthesis: (?:···) – that cleared the results in the AWB regex tester, but had no noticeable effect on my PHP test results.
Then I went with the suggested "unrolling the loop" solution: \{{2}(About|For|Redirect)\s*\|+[^{]*(?:\{[^{]|\{\{[^{}]+\}\}[^{]*)*\}{2} did the trick! Stacklimit errors gone! Thanks!
One of these days maybe I'll get around to reading that O'Reilly book "Mastering Regular Expressions" that I bought ~5 years ago. wbm1058 (talk) 17:40, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

The regex I use to find templates (in JavaScript) is /\{\{\s*(.+?)\s*(\|(?:.|\n)*?(?:(?:\{\{(?:.|\n)*?(?:(?:\{\{(?:.|\n)*?\}\})(?:.|\n)*?)*?\}\})(?:.|\n)*?)*|)\}\}\n?/g if that helps anyone - Evad37 [talk] 15:09, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Strange editing problem with new interface

Since the new source editing interface (not sure what it's called and honestly don't really care) was introduced recently, I have frequently run into a weird problem when trying to edit. Sometimes (it's not that uncommon, actually, and it just happened to me a few seconds ago), when I'm trying to add or delete content on a page, it will add or delete the content several spaces away from where my cursor is, and therefore where I intended to add/delete it to/from. This means I have to try to add/delete content a few spaces ahead/behind where I actually want it to be. Does anyone know why this frustrating bug might be happening, and has it happened to anyone else? Everymorning (talk) 21:47, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

The new editor interface is a beta feature and not default. You can get the normal source editor by disabling "Automatically enable all new beta features" and "New wikitext mode" at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-betafeatures. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:01, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
@Everymorning: I think this has been pointed out before, and is browser-specific. Maybe Chrome. Which browser (and version) are you using? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 23:57, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
@Redrose64: Chrome Version 62.0.3202.89 (Official Build) (64-bit). Everymorning (talk) 00:13, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
  • I have exactly the same problem, on both chrome (latest version) and Firefox (really old version). It generally occurs near the bottom of a long page, the cursor is slightly further off the further down the page I go. it occurs for me, only on the vertical plane. horizontal position is accurate. Dysklyver 09:55, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Mass delivery system opt-out category

The mass delivery opt-out category has been renamed, per this CFD. Could someone confirm that the system itself has been reconfigured accordingly, as User:MediaWiki message delivery still lists the old category for opt-out purpose. Also pinging Black Falcon (talk · contribs) as the CFD nominator. Optimist on the run (talk) 08:12, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

@Optimist on the run and Explicit: I rather think that somebody should have verified with the bot operators and those who maintain the mass message system that this was feasible before a bot was sent in to make all the category amendments on user talk pages. These users may suddenly find that they are receiving messages that they thought that they had blocked. I see nothing at the CFD to indicate that such checks had been made, nor is there any notice at WP:BON. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 10:05, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
I've updated MediaWiki:Massmessage-optout-category (per mw:Help:Extension:MassMessage#Opting out that is the system message to edit) so that it shows the right category and am currently tracking down all bots which may use the category. But yes as Redrose said such a rename should have been communicated beforehand. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 10:50, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
Also put a note on WP:BON; I didn't find any bot directly. Got a number of other pages. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 11:09, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
Thank you for doing that. I admit I wasn't expecting things to move quite so quickly once the discussion closed, but you're absolutely right that I should have added a link to the nomination at WP:BON from the outset. Lesson learned for next time. -- Black Falcon (talk) 04:49, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
The new category name doesn't make sense. It's not just Wikipedians who can opt-out, it's any talk page. It just happens to be that so far it's just users who have opted out. Legoktm (talk) 05:26, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
The only current exception is by Melly42 who opted out Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Extinction,[2] apparently to avoid Wikipedia:WikiProject X/Newsletter. If that was the only goal then the WikiProject could just have been removed from Wikipedia:WikiProject X/Newsletter. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:34, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
Eh. --MZMcBride (talk) 02:07, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Categories on mobile

Is anyone working on making categories visible on mobile phones? And if so, when is it planned to be ready? Marcocapelle (talk) 08:20, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

phab:T24660 Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 10:51, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
I made a gadget at some point that shows them. Check your preferences. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 11:22, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
A gadget would only work for logged in editors, though. Unless it can be added to the site JS. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 11:25, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
Nice, thanks! Marcocapelle (talk) 13:00, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
categories can be accessed by opting into the mobile web beta via the settings menu item. Hope that's helpful. Jdlrobson (talk) 00:26, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Problem with Template:Andean volcanoes

The first part of the template seems broken on Olca-Paruma but not on Template:Andean volcanoes; see File:Template "Andean volcanoes" problem on Olca-Paruma.PNG. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 20:50, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

@Jo-Jo Eumerus: Seems to be fixed after this edit. -- John of Reading (talk) 20:59, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Question about oversized photos on my Wikipedia Sandbox page

If I expand the photos on my Wikipedia Sandbox page to a ridiculously large size, does that detract from anyone else's Wikipedia experience? I was just experimenting but I also don't want to be a bandwidth hog. Thank you! Beauty School Dropout (talk) 05:35, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this completely answers your question, but If you don't specify a size while using thumb, user preferences should determine the size they should have (and a decent default should be presented to unregistered users). I also suggest reading MOS:IMAGES, the style guide for images. I hope this helps, —PaleoNeonate – 07:32, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
I read the question to mean that if I markup a huge image size like [[File:Example.jpg|10000px]], will that make the servers create an image of that size (server load), and is that huge image then downloaded to my computer (network bandwidth)?
And the answer for jpg and png is no in both cases, but for SVG images a png of the specified size is generated and displayed (and thus downloaded).
But any way: Wikipedia:Don't worry about performance. --Pipetricker (talk) 09:57, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Thank you both for your helpful answers. Beauty School Dropout (talk) 10:19, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Tech News: 2017-46

19:19, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Using Wikimedia maps instead of geohack?

I've experimented a bit with the sandbox version of our coordinates, in order to make use of the wikimedia maps, instead of geohack. There are some examples in the testcases and in order to get a bit more realistic impression I temporarily added it to this article, which also allows it to pull the geoshape. From the map viewer, you can still select alternative map services (including geohack actually). For maps from the moon and mars, we fallback to geohack. Several other wiki's already use this, the biggest being the GermanRussian Wikipedia. I'm wondering if people think it is worth pursuing this further. Please leave your feedback. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 13:36, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

(He means for you to compare these two links:
WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:11, 14 November 2017 (UTC))
  • Please, no. Our task is to be useful to readers, not to be ideologically pure. I get that there are some people who are fanatically open-source-only and resent the fact that we give prominence to commercial entities, and I equally get that there's a legitimate desire to "keep it in the family", but for actual readers who click links because they want to know more about the topic—as opposed to spherical cow readers who are only interested in seeing where the subject is on the map—Google and Bing, and even to a lesser extent OpenStreetMap, are orders of magnitude more useful.

    To stick with your example, Wikimedia Maps shows me where Stadskanaal is. Google Maps shows me where Stadskanaal is, shows me how I get to Stadskanaal if I want to see it for myself, allows me to see that the Museumspoorlijn STAR is nearby so if it's pouring with rain when I arrive I know there's still something to do, allows me to see which shops are in the area so I know whether to bring my own food and drink or not, lets me check the train and bus times so I know when to set out and return, and allows me to see other people's photos of the area so I have an idea what I'm seeing. Given that even a company with the resources of Apple has struggled for years to compete with Google when it comes to mapping that people actually want to use, I have no realistic hopes that Wikimedia Maps will ever be a viable alternative. Wikipedia/media is an important part of the internet ecosystem, but we need to not follow de-wiki down the "ourselves alone" blind alley they've been pursuing for the last few years and recognize that sometimes, other organizations do things better than us and it's a service to our readers to point that out when it's the case. ‑ Iridescent 22:30, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

    • Iridescent, both of the options being considered offer direct links to Google Maps. It's in the list under "Global services" for the one, and under "External services" for the other. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:07, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
      • Sure, but the existing setup has links to potentially useful mapping services prominently displayed, with the worthless Wikimedia Maps relatively hidden in plain sight down the right (I've no idea if the WMF have ever researched this, but I'd be willing to bet that well over half the visitors to the Geohack link don't even notice that it's there), whereas the proposed alternative is a huge Wikimedia Maps splodge with some tiny links hidden in miniature type down the right. (And I know you're aware that links in this position don't get noticed, given that "information on the right of the screen tends not to be noticed by readers" has been the WMF's prime argument in their years-long crusade to impose a maximum display width.) ‑ Iridescent 23:16, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
        • I don't think WMF has anything to do with geohack (other than providing the hosting infrastructure as part of Toolforge). It's one of Magnus Manske's tools. — This, that and the other (talk) 11:14, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Did i say german ? That should have been russian. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 07:51, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
  • For places in Britain (and Irelend) I very frequently go via geohack to access the CC freely licensed photos on Geograph Britain and Ireland. Geohack seems to support a range of such facilities, depending on location. Thincat (talk) 13:57, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
    • As noted, geohack would remain available from this new UI though, we would just not enforce every person through it. One more click. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 19:41, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
      • One more click isn't a problem. However, taking the geohack option should allow the localisation aspects (region parameter of {{coords}}) to be preserved. This doesn't seem to be happening in the region:GB case in testcases (but I am always out of my depth at WP:VPT!). Thincat (talk) 08:30, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
@TheDJ: in the same testcase example, decimal degrees seem to be converted to dms. Thincat (talk) 08:39, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
@Thincat: thx, well spotted ! I'll put it on the list of things i'll need to fix there at some point. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 10:30, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
  • I think this is a good step forward, particularly since it's moving from a short-term(!) hack on a temporary server to something that's properly integrated with Mediawiki. For those that aren't aware: this is a regularly-updated copy of the OpenStreetMap dataset, which we can use like this because it's freely licensed. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 23:57, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
  • @TheDJ: I would like it to be enabled, but there are still quite a few issues with the map style. I filed a few Phabricator bugs more than a year ago but they haven't been addressed (e.g. the map still doesn't render light rail tracks, and still incorrectly renders stop positions when they aren't supposed to be rendered at all). Furthermore, the map doesn't render the eastern half of Sydney Harbour for some reason (it displays properly in the style so no idea what's up with it). Jc86035 (talk) 07:01, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
    • @Jc86035: they haven't been addressed because the community isn't showing it's support for the effort for the intermediate progress. As such the foundation has scaled back on it. It's a common theme where we demand perfection and as a result just simply end up getting nothing. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 07:49, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
      • @TheDJ: Would the WMF ever consider further improving or expanding the stylesheets at this point? (I suppose it wouldn't be that hard for me to figure out for myself how to copy the railway=tram styling to railway=light_rail, though.) Jc86035 (talk) 11:14, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
        • @Jc86035: They'll review and approve patches if you submit them, but that's about it. What surprises me, is that there isn't even a single proposal among the community wishlist dealing with maps, a sharp contrast with previous years... Honestly, compared to previous years I find the quality of the wishlist proposals to be significantly lower all around... Let's hope people will make the most of this opportunity in the last 3 days they have available.... —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 13:25, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
          • @TheDJ: I haven't submitted my three yet, and will probably make one or two on maps. Jc86035 (talk) 13:45, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
  • @TheDJ: I have changed the section header; see phab:T180689. Jc86035 (talk) 14:33, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

Watchlist limit

In August Whatamidoing (WMF) said that a workround to the 1000 limit would be available in about a month. Can we have an update on progress on this workround?

I understand that a partial workaround is in the works, to let you filter out changes you've already looked at. (So you read the most recent 1000, then hide the ones that you've already read, and see the next-most-recent 1000, and repeat – you'll never miss any, but you won't see 1,0001+ on the screen at the same time.) However, this probably won't be available for approximately one month. In the meantime, please reset your watchlist numbers to something greater than 0.

Keith D (talk) 02:06, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

It's live now. You need the new filter system enabled. Click by the "hamburger" icon where it says "Filter changes (use menu or search for filter name)". Tick the box for "Unseen changes" (only). Wait (and wait) for it to filter the list. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:13, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
I do not have any "hamburger" icon. Keith D (talk) 19:17, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
Have you enabled "New filters for edit review" in Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-betafeatures? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:29, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
No I have not got that enabled. Tried and looks better but there is problem in that it only marks it visited if you actually open the page. Most of the time a page is only visited using pop-ups so that also needs to be marked as visited for this to be useful. Keith D (talk) 21:01, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

NoScript Firefox 57.0

I just updated to Firefox 57.0, and it does not have NoScript available on it. Is this a fluke or did Mozilla do away with NoScript? There appears to be no explanation. — Maile (talk) 14:07, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Nevermind. It's been deactivated by Mozilla, and there is no replacement product. — Maile (talk) 14:09, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
Link to active topic on the NoScript community forums for those that want to follow this: [7] . — xaosflux Talk 14:12, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
Looks like a new version that works with the latest Firefox browser is coming soon— see the noscript web site. isaacl (talk) 14:37, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the links, both of you. It feels strange operating without NoScript. — Maile (talk) 15:49, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
Firefox 57 is a major revision, a lot of extensions cease working; such as Print Edit. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:06, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
More information can be found here. Regards SoWhy 08:21, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
  • @Xaosflux, Isaac, Redrose64, and SoWhy: Still somewhat confused. One of the above links originally had a message that a new NoScript would be ready by the end of last week, but it wasn't. This is the thread I've been following: 1, and it's getting so I don't know what they're talking about. Can somebody give this to me in simplified terms? Is the Firefox 57.0 Quantum release of NoScript still in the works? When and if it's ever ready, will we Firefox users have to find it and reinstall, or will it likely be an option we'll find under Firefox Tools/Add-ons? — Maile (talk) 16:47, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
@Maile66: The Quantum release for NoScript is available for download here. Try downloading it manually if the addon is not updated automatically (using the "direct download" link). If you need more extensions, you can always downgrade to Firefox 52.5, which is the ESR supported until Mid-2018. Regards SoWhy 16:52, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
@Maile66: Go to about:addons in your browser to see your "Legacy Extensions". It may be updated there. ―Justin (koavf)TCM 16:54, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
I see a lot of links to update stuff. On add-ons "Find a Replacement", it redirects to Double NoScript or NoScript 10, whichever they're calling it. So ... it's either (a) isn't ready yet; (b) was downloaded by some user who thinks it is a disappointment, or (c) NoScript just working again - all by itself - on some user's browser and is wonderful. Again, this is confusing. NoScript and Firefox need to get their coordination together. — Maile (talk) 19:25, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

User:FACBot bug

There seems to be a bug with the WP:FAC bot, see diff. In said diff, the newly-inserted |action3oldid= links to a diff of the WP:FLRC nomination, rather than to a permalink of the article itself. I'm not sure if this bug has since affected other articles, or whether this is a deliberate change.--Nevéselbert 17:45, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Pinging Hawkeye7. Nihlus 17:51, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
Yes, it affected all the Featured List Candidate article histories. The error was a misunderstanding on my part. I have corrected this. Today's Talk:IRPA Try of the Year should link to the version of the Featured List. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:17, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Ordered list with multiple items in same order

Ordered list in wikipedia can be created by using the "#" symbol like this:

  1. Item 1 Score 997
  2. Item 2 Score 993
  3. Item 3 Score 990
  4. Item 4 Score 990
  5. Item 5 Score 984

However, as indicated in the above example, there are situations where some items should be ranked the same in an ordered list. Is there any syntax that would allow the use of two "3." in an ordered list? C933103 (talk) 19:09, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

According to Help:List#Specifying a starting value, you can use a hybrid of wiki-markup and HTML to set an arbitrary number for an entry in a list, and then the list continues consecutively thereafter:
  1. Item 1 Score 997
  2. Item 2 Score 993
  3. Item 3 Score 990
  4. Item 4 Score 990
  5. Item 5 Score 984
Item 4 is coded as:
#<li value="3">Item 4 Score 990</li>
If you wanted to have Item 5 become "5." (the fifth in order, rather than having the fourth rank), you could use that same technique to assign it as value="5". DMacks (talk) 19:17, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
I see, thanks. So, if it is a 100-member list, then all the remaining 95 items will need to be manually assigned with the value too? C933103 (talk) 19:45, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
You only have to manually assign when you want a number to be non-consecutive with the previous. So if you wanted:
  1. Item 1 Score 997
  2. Item 2 Score 993
  3. Item 3 Score 990
  4. Item 4 Score 990
  5. Item 5 Score 984
  6. Item 6 Score 980
only the boldfaced ones need to be assigned manually because those are the entries whose values are non-continuous from the previous (Item 4 is #3 rather than #4 after the previous #3; Item 5 is #5 rather than #4 after the previous #3). Item 6 is automatic #6 after the previous #5. DMacks (talk) 20:06, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Possible to set timestamp of pages-visited on watchlist?

Special:Watchlist somehow tracks a datestamp of the last time "Mark all pages visited" was clicked. Is it possible to set it to some point other than the time at which that button is clicked? If I'm away for a few days, I have a long list of pages on my watchlist that have been changed. I browse the list from the oldest change I hadn't seen, but might not have time to get as far as "now". But with popups and such, I might not actually "read" every article. I'd like to update the mark to how far I got, as if I clicked mark-all-pages-visited at some arbitrary other point in the watchlist. Is this possible? Or is there some other way to keep a "pages changed since [time I choose] based on watchlist list" rather than just a certain period of time before now? DMacks (talk) 03:37, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

I created a proof of concept type script at User:The Voidwalker/setWatchlistTo.js. The one you click is marked as unread, as well as all above it. The implementation is a bit ugly, and creates the dreaded page-jumping (hence proof of concept). If you have suggestions for making it look better, they would be most welcome. -- The Voidwalker Whispers 00:58, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
Special:Watchlist doesn't track the time at all. There is a field for the "notification timestamp" on every watchlist entry; whenever a page is edited, every watchlist entry for the page where this field is empty gets filled in with the time of the edit. If the field is non-empty, Special:Watchlist displays the page as having new revisions, and the history for the page displays all revisions with the field's timestamp or newer does similarly. All "Mark all pages visited" does is clear the field for all pages on your watchlist.
If you make use of the indications on the history page to see all revisions of the page since you last viewed it, you would not want to use a script like the one The Voidwalker made since it would reset the field to indicate some revisions had been seen when they actually hadn't. On the other hand, if you ignore the history page and re-read the whole page whenever your watchlist says it has been updated, The Voidwalker's script would probably be fine for you. Anomie 22:12, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
Ah, that gives me an idea. I could easily modify the existing script to only set the timestamp for individual pages. The downside to that being you would have to mark everything individually, but I could set up check boxes.... Anyway, good to know Anomie, thanks. -- The Voidwalker Whispers 23:57, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Search for new pages matching a pattern?

Is there a way to search for pages which 1) have a certain word (or pattern) in their title, and 2) we created within the past N days? -- RoySmith (talk) 13:42, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

For one yes. There is more here. If you search for intitle:"word or phrase" in the regular search you should get what you are looking for. Unfortunately there is no way to filter by time as far as I know. This tool can be used to search for regular expression patterns. (But again, nothing about time). -- The Voidwalker Whispers 21:23, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────I often use google ffor plaintext searches, as in a google search for allintitle:boop Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 22:23, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

Pages link to self

I'm weeding out links to dabs and have noticed something unusual. Why does 49 show up in Special:WhatLinksHere/49? (More readable result, limited to article namespace) 89 has the same issue, but similar pages such as 37 and 60 don't. Certes (talk) 14:15, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

Special:WhatLinksHere/49 says "49 (transclusion)". This means the page "transcludes" itself. It's caused by {{PAGESIZE:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|R}} in {{Short pages monitor}}. {{PAGESIZE:X}} apparently counts as transcluding X. Special:WhatLinksHere/37 also says "37 (transclusion)" after a null edit. Maybe PAGESIZE hasn't always counted like this. I didn't null edit 60 if others are curious. There is a similar situation with {{#ifexist:X}} which causes a WhatLinksHere entry (as a link and not a transclusion) even though no link is produced. I guess it's about which database operations are performed. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:49, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
The reason these links are stored is to do with caching. When the page "49" is edited, its size may change, so any pages that include or use the size of that page will also need to be updated (this occurs as part of the job queue, which does not guarantee instantaneous updates). Same with page existence. — This, that and the other (talk) 09:39, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
But when the page "49" is edited, the software already knows that "49" will have to be updated. There's no need to remember whether a page tests its own size. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:24, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

But when the page "49" is edited

Only if one ignores the fact that the size of the page can change without being edited. The way chaotic way that wikitext was designed leads to a lot of inception-like madness. It is an unsolvable problem as long as page properties depend on another page, and as long as reading & editing are convoluted. The only thing developers can do is mask it or kill all functions that cause it.11:03, 18 November 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk)

Thank you for all the helpful replies. It seems that the Wikimedia software is confusing "Page X has a clickable wikilink leading to page Y" with "The appearance of X depends on the content of Y, so X may need purging if Y changes". Given an infinite budget we'd rewrite that bit, but it doesn't sound as if that will be happening this week. At least the problem is more manageable once you understand it. Certes (talk) 11:15, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

It sounds like you are confusing links and transclusions at WhatLinksHere. When WhatLinksHere says "49 (transclusion)", it is not in any way a claim that the page has a wikilink to 49. "(transclusion)" means it is a (false) claim that the page transcludes 49 in the same way as templates can be transcluded. Click "Hide transclusions" on WhatLinksHere to hide pages which are only listed due to transclusions and not wikilinks. For example, Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Citation needed has a huge number of article entries with "(transclusion)", so those articles say {{citation needed}} (or use a redirect like {{fact}}) but they don't say [[Template:citation needed]]. Most articles are not transcluded anywhere. You could say two things:
1) The Wikimedia software is (deliberately) confusing "Page X has a clickable wikilink leading to page Y" with "Page X uses {{#ifexist:Y}} to test whether page Y exists".
2) The Wikimedia software is (deliberately) confusing "Page X is transcluding page Y" with "Page X uses {{PAGESIZE:Y}} to get the size of the wikitext in page Y".
"49 (transclusion)" at Special:WhatLinksHere/49 is an example of 2). An example of 1) could be created if a page with no link to 49 says: {{#ifexist:49|There is a page called "49"|There is no page called "49"}}. 1) is documented at Help:What links here#Overview: The parser function #ifexist: causes a listing in "What links here" among the normal links even though no link is produced. 2) appears to be undocumented. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:58, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

Can anyone help me make a complex geologic time scale-related template?

I'm trying to make a navbox template that can easily be filled in with a region's stratigraphic units that are manually inputted into variables by editors. The problem I'm facing is that there are a huge number of time units on the geologic timescale that spreads the content over a wide area of the template. Is there any way to make it so that only the units that have had content inputted for their respective variables show up in the template? Abyssal (talk) 14:18, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

I've written a few comments at Template talk:Stratigraphic column navbox. Certes (talk) 15:42, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
Thanks, Certes. I've tried to implement your suggested code without success. Have I done something wrong? Abyssal (talk) 16:21, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

Now resolved; details at Template talk:Stratigraphic column navbox. Certes (talk) 19:37, 17 November 2017 (UTC)


I believe The music barnstar should be added to the WikiLove feature under the stars section. How can we add it?--◂ ‎épine talk 14:37, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

It needs to be added here: MediaWiki:WikiLove.jsTheDJ (talkcontribs) 15:26, 16 November 2017 (UTC)


I really don't like not having the WP:OBOD, so shortly after they introduced Notifications, someone helped me to create User:Nyttend/monobook.js with code restoring the OBOD; it basically just calls User:Writ Keeper/Scripts/orangeBar.js. Normally it works, but it's intermittent; why would that be the case? For example, some minutes ago I got the OBOD because of a message from User:Sbmeirow, so I viewed it, went to another page, got another OBOD, viewed the message, went to another page, and suddenly here's the You have new messages notice without the OBOD. I would expect that the OBOD either would never work or would work all the time, especially in a matter of a few minutes; this intermittency just doesn't seem to make sense. I'm running IE 11. Nyttend (talk) 23:42, 16 November 2017 (UTC)


Anyone can help me create module(s) for Wikipedia, to take data from wikidata ? Xaris333 (talk) 06:26, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

@Xaris333: Please be more specific. We already have Module:Wikidata and Module:WikidataIB (and a few others); do you need something which is currently possible in the software to be added to the modules? Jc86035 (talk) 07:46, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
@Jc86035: I need a specific module to add to a template. I already knew about that pages. Xaris333 (talk) 07:51, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
@Xaris333: Try RexxS (talk · contribs) who has already produced a bunch of these. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 08:40, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

Rename comment

In the message "Your account is currently being renamed or merged. View the status." the link is wrong, the same for all users, $1 not being substituted. Wikisaurus (talk) 17:57, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

The message is MediaWiki:Centralauth-rename-abortlogin. A fix should be on the way.[8] PrimeHunter (talk) 20:04, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia under Nigerian domain

Through a Google search, I stumbled upon this website, which looks like a carbon copy of Wikipedia under a different domain name. It looks exactly the same and up to date on any page, so it's apparently not a mirror site cached on some server but rather a proxy to Wikipedia. At first I suspected it was something benign, like for people living in parts of the world where they are denied access to Wikipedia or something, but upon making searches and failing to acquire absolutely any information on the site, I grew suspicious.

It is under .ng, the Nigerian ccTLD, but Whois reveals it was registered in April 2016 by someone with a Turkish address and a account. The source is essentially identical to Wikipedia's except Google Analytics code is embedded in the header. Accessing the site via a non-secure address redirects to HTTPS, but the certificate is one issued by a different organization than one that Wikimedia uses (I have no idea how relevant this is, but still).

Is this some kind of phishing site? And even if it was innocuous in nature, it concerns me that it was included matter-of-factly in Google results when it is completely indistinguishable from the actual Wikipedia in the eyes of someone who doesn't always pay attention to the address bar, AKA everyone.

What is this? And can we―or should we―do something about this? Nardog (talk) 22:32, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

WP:MIRROR attempts to deal with this. I thought I had seen a way to report to WMF legal when blatant problems such as using trademarked logos occurred, but I can't see it. Johnuniq (talk) 22:44, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
That's at wmf:Trademark policy, section "6.1 Reporting misuse" -- John of Reading (talk) 07:47, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
Thanks. Of course if I had tried the obvious WP:TRADEMARK I would have found that. I reported the website (which includes other languages) to the legal email address advised as a trademark violation. Johnuniq (talk) 21:54, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
Thanks. Do you also know how to get it off Google (and other search engines)? Google once accepted reports of scraper sites but not anymore it seems. Nardog (talk) 09:07, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Visual editor stripping whitespace from Infoboxes

Hi all, the Visual Editor keeps stripping whitespace from Infoboxes, like here with the {{Infobox settlement}} template. Some editors like to line up the equals signs so that all the data lines up nicely, other editors don't like extra whitespace. Whatever the case, this is basically a local consensus issue. I reported this Visual Editor activity here, which didn't get any useful attention, then opened a case at Phabricator, but didn't get much in the way of help.

I'm not a technical type, so I'm totally ignorant on any technical aspect of this issue, but my general perspective is that VisualEditor shouldn't be using inexperienced editors as shills to perform maintenance tasks that you'd expect of experienced AWB users. A volunteer at Phabricator suggested that the templates could be modified so that the status quo is preserved. They wrote:

If you wish to change this instruction, you can go to [the template], and where it says

 "format": "block"

you can replace it with


So, short story, if this is something that any of you find problematic, (and I might be a lone crusader here) it would require a fix. I guess that would mean identifying the problematic templates and then removing the format preference? This had been happening with {{Infobox film}} and {{Infobox television}} but AussieLegend was kind enough to fix those. Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 04:53, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

Removing "format": "block" is the equivalent to changing it to "format": "inline" for newly added infoboxes. It would be better to use something like "format": "{{_\n| ______________ = _\n}}\n" for an infobox. See mw:Help:TemplateData#Custom formats. — JJMC89(T·C) 07:13, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

Citation links

Can anyone tell me if there are any means of counting the links used globally in en.WP citations by domain (or rather sub-domain), excepting archiving sites? I hope to use such data to ensure that the top, say, two or three hundred top-cited domains are included to populate my script that ensures that parameters are correctly used within citations. -- Ohc ¡digame! 13:51, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

Merging forked histories?

User:Leprof 7272/Everipedia and the currently deleted Everipedia are forks and should have their histories merged. I'm not sure what the right procedure is to do this. I looked at WP:HISTMERGE, but that describes a process for dealing with copy-paste forks, which isn't what we've got here. How should I proceed? This is related to WP:Deletion review/Log/2017 November 12 -- RoySmith (talk) 15:44, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

The logs [9] show User:Leprof 7272/Everipedia was moved from Everipedia 20 February 2017 including the page history at the time. Two pages have later been created and deleted at Everipedia but all deleted edits there are from March 2017 and seem unrelated to User:Leprof 7272/Everipedia apart from being about the same subject. In a brief comparison I found no sign of content being copied between the pages so I see no need for a history merge if deleted edits of Everipedia are restored. If content is later copied between the pages then it can just be noted at the time of the copying per Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:17, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

WikiProject template help

Needing a little help here -- Wikiproject Anatomy uses a template Template:Wikiproject Anatomy to label articles. We can set a "field" that relates to the anatomical discipline (eg gross, micro, neuro, etc.). These automatically add the article's talk page to a category (Category:Anatomy articles by topic)

One field is "NA" - ie no field applies (usually because the article is a redirect). Unfortunately that means the template incorrectly states "This redirect has not yet been associated with a particular anatomical discipline." (eg here Talk:Peripheral nervous systems). Any ideas why? --Tom (LT) (talk) 00:07, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Because that page is a redirect? :D The relevant code is
 |TF_1_TEXT          = This {{pagetype|{{{class|}}}}} {{#switch: {{lc:{{{field|}}}}}
   |animal|embryo|gross|meta|micro|NA|neuro|organs|systems=has been classified as relating to {{#switch: {{lc:{{{field|}}}}}
   |NA       = [[:Category:Anatomy articles about NA|NA]]
In it, you will see that the page type (which relies on the class, and presumably has some detection for redirects) sets the text "redirect" while NA sets the "has been..." text. Is this behavior undesirable? --Izno (talk) 02:16, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
Heh, Izno, I understand that the page is a redirect. However on all pages with the banner you can set a discipline (Eg micro) and the talk page banner will say "has been classified as relating to microanatomy"... this works even on redirects
However, for all pages marked as discipline 'NA', the talk page banner will state "...has not yet been associated...". This is the bit which is confusing me. --Tom (LT) (talk) 03:45, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
I too was confused - when I wrote that part of the documentation in February 2015. I considered fixing the template, but decided to leave it alone and document the behaviour as best I could. Note particularly the lines
Omitting the parameter, or using any other value, populates Category:Anatomy articles about an unassessed area
I felt (and still do) that |field=NA should either do something more meaningful, or simply not categorise at all. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 11:26, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
Thanks Redrose64, I think we are slowly getting closer to the solution. The problem is this:

NA – use when the article is related to NA – populates Category:Anatomy articles about NA

Doesn't happen. You can set the field as NA but the category doesn't populate. See Talk:Peripheral nervous systems as an example. I am really scratching my head as to why. --Tom (LT) (talk) 10:16, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
These categories are intended just as administrative categories. There's a big difference between unassessed (ie, haven't been assessed) and assessed as NA (ie, not relating to one of the set categories). --Tom (LT) (talk) 10:16, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
The template uses {{#switch: {{lc:{{{field|}}}}} ... }} and so when |field=NA is passed in, it's actually testing the value na which has no match (the tested options have the uppercase NA), so the default actions apply for each switch statement. I overlooked this when doing the doc in 2015. As a start, we can do this. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 11:44, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Visual Editor lacks a Cite field for naming references

Hi, y'alls. In Visual Editor there is no field in the Cite creator for Reference name. e.g. - to render: <ref name = "hamburger steak"> in the dressed citation template.

Would it be easy to add that field? It is very common. Right now it is kludgey to add it after the fact, or by toggling to the text editor. Ping me back. Having fun! Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 02:01, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

@Checkingfax: It is not easy I believe. The phabricator task is phab:T52568. --Izno (talk) 02:23, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
And actually, there's a 2017 survey item for this. meta:2017 Community Wishlist Survey/Editing/VisualEditor: Allow references to be named. --Izno (talk) 03:30, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Fixing broken wikilinks

I have a question about fixing broken Wikilinks. I wasn't sure where to ask it, so I'd figured I'd ask it here. There used to be a subsection in Japan Shogi Association titled "Apprentice school", and links to this section have been added to various other articles as Japan Shogi Association#Apprentice school. The relevant content in the section, however, was recently moved to another article Professional shogi player (more specifically Professional shogi player#Apprenticeship. So, I would like to know if there's a quick way to fix all of these links at once by sort of redirecting them to the new article/new section, or do all the individual links need to be manually corrected. There were other subsections in Japan Shogi Association#Players which were also moved to "Professional shogi player", so there other links which need correcting as well. However, the method for correcting them all should be the same, so once I find out the best way to fix one set, the others can be fixed in the same manner. -- Marchjuly (talk) 02:29, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

a quick way to fix all of these links at once by sort of redirecting them to the new article/new section, or do all the individual links need to be manually corrected The latter, unless you've actually targeted a redirect with those links (and that redirect's title could just as easily redirect to the new location of the content). For example, were the content of Agahnim to be moved elsewhere (say, The Legend of Zelda), then you could simply change the text of Agahnim from #REDIRECT [[Characters in The Legend of Zelda series#Agahnim]] to e.g. #REDIRECT [[The Legend of Zelda#Agahnim]]. Otherwise, you have to hunt down all the links and fix them manually. Someone at WP:Bot requests can probably take care of this if you have an exact list of links that you're looking to fix. --Izno (talk) 02:51, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
insource:"Japan Shogi Association#Apprentice school" can find the links. Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser (AWB) can help change them quickly with semi-automated edits once you know how to use it, but AWB may not be worth starting up for 10 edits. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:06, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
Thanks Izno and PrimeHunter for the input and the extra info. I believe I am the one who added most of the links in question, so fixing them manually it not a huge deal. I just wasn't sure if there were others floating around in articles which I didn't add. I didn't know about {{search link}}, but that seems more than sufficient to track them all down. -- Marchjuly (talk) 04:06, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
You can just enter insource:"Japan Shogi Association#Apprentice school" in the search box. I only used {{search link}} to make a clickable link. insource: is documented at Help:Searching#Parameters. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:49, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Making Visual Editor work on Wikiproject pages

Hi all

I've been trying to create some tables on a Wikiproject page and finding it frustrating because I can't use Visual Editor. I've been trying to work out why VE isn't enabled on VE and have been looking at ways to enable it.

From what I can find out, the reason it isn't enabled is that it shares a namespace (Wikipedia:) with many other kinds of pages which don't play well with VE and that the only way to enable VE would be to move Wikiproject pages to another namespace (e.g Wikiproject:).

Some questions:

  • Is the information I've found correct?
  • What would be the process of moving Wikiproject pages to their own namespace?
  • What process should be used to get community feedback on whether this should happen?
  • Can anyone see any downsides of making VE available on Wikiproject pages?


John Cummings (talk) 14:26, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

As far as I understand, VE is not for talk-like pages and developers won't adapt it as Flow is supposed to serve talk spaces. Wikipedia: is a mixture between two purposes which makes it problematic to use VE there. Perhaps you can convince developers to allow it on WPspace with the understanding that people won't use it on talk-like pages there. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 14:59, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
Thanks Jo-Jo Eumerus, I'm sorry for not being clear, I didn't mean for Wikiproject talk pages, but for the organisational pages that require tables and other parts that are hard to do in source editor. John Cummings (talk) 15:52, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
No, I did understand well enough. Asking developers to allow VE on such pages may work, but I see phab:T100067 which was declined. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:04, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
Jo-Jo Eumerus, this is because the Wikipedia: namespace includes pages that have issues when editing with VE, my workaround for this is to move all Wikiproject pages to a separate namespace so that VE could be enabled. I'm trying to understand the process to make this happen. John Cummings (talk) 16:41, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
T152794: Enable visual editor in Wikiprojects spaces on English Wikipedia. --Pipetricker (talk) 16:50, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

OK, thanks, what is the process for a proposal to move Wikiprojects to a Wikiproject: namespace? John Cummings (talk) 18:07, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

That would be a proposal to create an entire new namespapce, where we put "pages" is up to us. Note, the "Wikipedia:" namespace is already the canonical "Project" namespace. — xaosflux Talk 18:16, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
Thanks Xaosflux, how would I start a proposal? John Cummings (talk) 19:39, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
Start a RfC at WP:VPR. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 00:10, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Not sure what all the fuss is about. It is trivial to get visual editor working in the Wikipedia namespace without any development at all, e.g. . Just append ?veaction=edit to the URL. It would take a few minutes to create a usercript to make a button show up for those that want it in that namespace.19:17, 20 November 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk)

Hmmm, I don't understand, when I go to the link and try to switch to Visual Editor it is grey and I cannot select it. John Cummings (talk) 20:22, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
If you follow that link you should already be in the visual editor. — xaosflux Talk 20:28, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
Thanks Xaosflux but it doesn't work for me, the page starts to load then the URL switches to and shows the source editor :( (I'm using latest Firefox on Windows 10). John Cummings (talk) 21:54, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
It seems to be hit or miss, but that's what you get with VE! — xaosflux Talk 23:33, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
I believe that the result depends upon whether you have the beta feature for the 2017 wikitext mode enabled. If you do, then you don't get wikitext; you get raw HTML, which is A Very Bad User Experience. This is a particular problem for the use case in question, because the people who most struggle with wikitext are the same ones who benefit most from a visual editing experience and from not needing to learn two different toolbars to be able to use a talk page.
At the English Wikipedia, the basic sticking point is that the team is never going to enable VisualEditor for any namespace that contains ANI (or any similarly large and high-traffic discussion page). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:34, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Tech News: 2017-47

19:18, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

New user script needs testing

I've been working on User:Enterprisey/reply-link, which is a user script that adds a "reply" link after signatures on a discussion page; when you click a link, a form comes up that lets you type your reply without having to go through an edit window. I'm looking for brave editors to test it out and find some bugs. This script could be very useful for new editors or people who don't want to wade through pages of markup to find the one comment they're replying to. (Indentation and signing happen automatically!) Thanks! Enterprisey (talk!) 09:42, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Installed! This is a really interesting idea – one that might bridge the gap between those editors who want to contribute to discussions but are intimidated by wikitext editing. This was something that Flow attempted to resolve, but has not succeeded yet. This might just be an alternative solution. Face-smile.svg (Replied using the new script.) Mz7 (talk) 09:52, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the feedback! Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing how it can be used that way. Also using the new script! Enterprisey (talk!) 10:28, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
The reply link doesn't seem to show up after comments that originally didn't include a signature and were later signed using {{subst:unsigned}}. Mz7 (talk) 10:36, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
Tracked! Going to fix this soon. Enterprisey (talk!) 10:57, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
Trying it out. I have left feedback at the script's talk page. --Pipetricker (talk) 13:48, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
I assume the script doesn't yet know how to reply below other replies to the same comment. (Replied using 'reply-link'.) Pipetricker (talk) 14:03, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
I'm copying my above comment to the script's talkpage. (Replied using 'reply-link'.) Pipetricker (talk) 14:29, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

missing borders on mobile

Hddty. reported this problem at Template talk:Album ratings. basically, the borders are missing from the last cell in the table. I put this fix in the sandbox (I may not have the color completely matched), but it seems very odd that the sitewide css isn't adding the borders for the last cell, and it would be a shame to need to explicitly inject the inline css in every cell. you can see the difference between the live and sandbox version on the mobile version of the testcases page. Frietjes (talk) 15:45, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

As I understand it is limited only to mobile? Ruslik_Zero 20:55, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
It seems that in Minerva skin there is a selector that nulls the border of a cell belonging to the row that is the last child. Ruslik_Zero 21:04, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
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