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March 20

Coke vs. anthracite

As a rule, which costs less: coke or anthracite? 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:5900:99FF:87AF:35DC (talk) 08:30, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

In the days of town gas made from coal, coke used to be much cheaper because it was a by-product. When natural gas came along, the price of coke rose considerably, but it is still slightly cheaper than anthracite, at least here in the UK. Dbfirs 12:05, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
Are you sure about that @Dbfirs:? Our Coke (fuel) article suggests it needs to be specifically 'cooked' from particular types of coal. Rojomoke (talk) 12:53, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
Well it was last time I bought some. It seems to have gone off the market now except for bulk supplies to ironfoundries. Dbfirs 15:06, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
And anthracite is the rarest and highest-quality type of coal. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 12:56, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
Coke's about £30 a gram; couldn't say about anthracite. — O Fortuna! Imperatrix mundi. 13:03, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
This is presumably a joke about cocaine prices. StuRat (talk) 13:14, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
Coke is also 0.03-0.10 cents per gram. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 13:23, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
Trivia note: In 1945, the last time the Chicago Cubs were in the World Series prior to 2016, there was a coal-and-coke plant immediately west of the ballpark, on the other side of a railroad siding.[1]Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:26, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
See also The Oval Gasholders. Alansplodge (talk) 18:42, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
"Coke" in reference to coal is of somewhat obscure origin.[2] "Coke" in reference to cocaine and also Coca-Cola refers to the Coca plant. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:17, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
In the UK, this supplier sells coke at £5.00 (US$6.20) for a 20 kg (44 lb) sack, and anthracite at £7.25 ($9.00) for 20 kg. Prices from other British sites varied widely, some almost three times as much. Alansplodge (talk) 18:36, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
(un-indent) Thanks all! So, coke usually (but not always) costs less than anthracite, right? 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:5900:99FF:87AF:35DC (talk) 23:16, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
Yes, the more expensive coke is designed for special purposes, not for heating. I used to use a mixture of half coke and half anthracite. Dbfirs 21:17, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
What is the more expensive coke used for? Steelmaking? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 21:42, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
More or less (and other refining). The most expensive coke. See: The most important chemical properties are moisture, fixed carbon, ash, sulfur, phosphorus, and alkalies. Fixed carbon is the fuel portion of the coke; the higher the fixed carbon, the higher the thermal value of coke. Will over-look Dbfirs's fux pass because he was obviously taking about domestic heating where high sulfur fumes etc goes up the chimney and so doesn’t matter. Unless of course one is old enough to remember before the clean air acts came in where cities such as London suffered pea soup fogs that became green, due the the sulfur from coal fires – but I digress. Solid fuel is priced by calorific value/weight. Anthracite has a higher value than coke. fuels-higher-calorific-values Hence the price difference. As Michael Caine (a British Londoner) might say “Not a lot of people know that”!


When used together, what does the “House” and “Sign” word mean? (talk) 09:58, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Signs pass through astrological houses throughout the day. Signs are sectors of the swath the planets' paths are in as they move through the constellations on the celestial sphere. In the West they do not care if the constellations move through the signs over thousands of years. In India and probably some other places they do so their signs don't change constellation every 2,000 years. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 10:13, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
A sign is a segment of the Zodiac, fixed with respect to the distant stars. A house, as I understand it, is a segment of the sky as seen from the ground at a particular moment; for a given observer the sun passes through another house every two hours. —Tamfang (talk) 07:19, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

Bit of a dark question....

Say there was a moderate to severe nuclear exchange, it's inevitable that nuclear power plants would be damage. Hell, look what just a tsunami could do to Fukashima NPP. So the big question is, has there been any modelling done that takes into account what damage and consequences of on hits against nuclear facilities. Obviously, the effect of nuclear conflict would be unimaginable in terms of loss and destruction. But NPP's on top? Inconceivable?! So any pointers or rabbit holes that a can sneak down for safety on this matter? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 21:21, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

A bomb shelter constructed after 1950 should provide complete protection against all radiation, from reactors as well as the atom bombs -- the only difference is, if a reactor is destroyed near where you live, you'll have to stay in the shelter for a longer time (possibly years, as opposed to a few weeks if your location is affected by fallout from nuclear weapons alone). 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 23:20, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
Military nuclear facilities are hardened against bombing but a civilian Nuclear power plant is vulnerable to attack from the air before a controlled shut-down can be completed. The Israeli Air Force studied damage inflicted by Iran in Operation Scorch Sword 1980 on Iraq's nuclear reactor when planning their Operation Opera strike that destroyed the reactor in 1981. Blooteuth (talk) 01:04, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

Maybe you could tell us what you had in mind regarding "damage and consequences". Your typical reactor dome is basically everything-proof, but as hinted the harm that is generally considered is nuclear meltdown following a failure of cooling systems before shutdown can take place. Nuclear Power plants are supposed to be designed to be able to shut down in spite of any disaster they are expected to face, but I don't imagine most civilian plants have nuke-proof backup power and cooling systems. Someguy1221 (talk) 01:19, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

  • Keep in mind that the Fukushima plant was built sub-spec by mobsters. μηδείς (talk) 00:21, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

March 22

Two questions about the US restaurant industry

This is a sequel to a question I asked here five years ago. This time I have two questions:

1. What is the largest US restaurant chain not to have an international presence? Largest in terms of revenue, and largest in terms of number of outlets.

2. What large US restaurant chains that lack an international presence never had one in their history? It surprised me to learn that some US-only chains such as White Castle and Chick-fil-A did have an international presence at some point but have since closed them down. What large chains have never expanded internationally ever? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:16, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Here is the list of the top 100 U.S. Restaurant Chains as of 2012. Near as I can tell, Sonic Drive-In, #12 on that list, only has outlets in the U.S., and does not look like they ever had an outlet outside of the U.S. --Jayron32 01:49, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
Wow, yester evening I happened to see an advertisement for Sonic, of which I was previously unaware. Holy Baader-Meinhof effect, Batman! —Tamfang (talk) 07:26, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

Swam on wood

got a problem with water going under my in roof and damage my wood. I have cut it out and find the next stuff on the wood. I am living in a rural town in the Karoo in South Africa. Can somebody identify this and explain this.

It looks like you've tried to upload some photos to illustrate your question. Unfortunately it hasn't worked and you can't just upload any old photo to Wikipedia anyway. Upload them to an image hosting site such as imgur and link them from there. --Viennese Waltz 08:07, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
The swam may be wet rot (coniophora).--Shantavira|feed me 08:58, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
What does "swam" mean here? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:06, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
"Swam" is Afrikaans for fungus (from Dutch 'zwam'). - Lindert (talk) 21:28, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
Is that definition given anywhere in the English Wikipedia? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:29, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
AFAIK it's not an English word, and Wikipedia is not a foreign dictionary, though fungus is linked to af:swam. - Lindert (talk) 21:39, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

inkjet printer ink and fountain pen ink

Are inkjet printer ink and fountain pen ink significantly different from each other? Would inkjet printer ink work in a fountain pen?

Reviewing Inkjet printing and Fountain pen ink, they seem to be of sufficiently different composition. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:05, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
In the early days of inkjet printers, I used to use fountain pen ink successfully to refill ink cartridges, though the quality of print was slightly inferior. This might not work with modern printers. For the other way round, just try it and see, but don't blame me if it clogs your fountain pen. Dbfirs 21:43, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
I expect this to be an issue of viscosity. Inkjet ink has a very low viscosity because it has to squirt out a very tiny hole at incredibly high speed. Google shows inkjet viscosity <5 mPas. I cannot find viscosity for fountain pen ink. If it is higher, it would likely clog an inkjet printer. Next issue would be how vital the higher viscosity relates to the fountain pen. Is it necessary to make the pen work? I believe so. Low viscosity ink should drip off the pen too easily. (talk) 14:32, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
Update: References I've found for fountain pen ink are measured in dynes/cm2. One dyne/cm2 is 100 mPas. The inks go from around 15 to 45 dynes/cm2. So, they are 1500 to 4500 mPas, which is considerably more than 5 mPas max for inkjet ink. (talk) 14:40, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
I'm surprised that the difference is so great. They seem to drip in very similar fashion. Olive oil has a viscosity of 81 mPas, and thick motor oil 319 mPas. What are you using in your fountain pen? I think you mis-read the patent which was for a gel ink. Most bottled inks have a viscosity of 5 mPas or lower, just the same as printer inks. Many fountain pens have a rubber reservoir. I don't know how the chemicals in a printer ink would affect this. Dbfirs 18:13, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
I am also concerned. I only found one site giving specific values for viscosity and it clearly marked them as dynes/cm2. My gut tells me that they are actually mPas. So, I searched for contradictory information, but haven't found any. (talk) 19:48, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
Searching again on dinner break and found a great site [3] that I believe explains the confusion. The surface tension is measured in dynes/cm - which is in the range 42-48 for that manufacturer. The viscosity on that page is measured in cPas with a range of 1*1.25, which is 10-12.5 mPas. So, that fountain pen ink is at least twice as viscous as inkjet ink. It still supports my two fears. First, I worry that fountain pen ink will clog the inkjet printer. Second, I worry that inkjet ink will drip off the fountain pen too easily. (talk) 19:54, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
Hmm, that seems to be particularly viscous ink, probably designed for calligraphy, and I agree that it would probably clog the jets in a printer cartridge. I can't find evidence yet, but I instinctively feel that the Quink ink, mentioned by Aspro below, and exactly the brand that I and others used for refilling cartridges, is less viscous than that, and less viscous than most printer ink. I agree that surface tension will also affect performance. Dbfirs 21:34, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
As inkjet ink costs a lot more than the very best French Champagne, can't see why the OP would consider using it in a fountain pen. My printers are more often idle than my favorite fountain pen, yet don't seem to clog up unless left idle for a very long time, so wouldn't think the OP would notice any difference when using this ink in his fountain pen. Like Dbfirs, I refill my cartridges with pen ink (brand name Quink) which is a ruddy site cheaper! It works, regardless of the mPas ! Quality wise – I can read it clearly and easily! Whether I would use it to print out my résumé to a prospective employer is a different matter. But me-being-me, I think I would; because if my prospective employer wants to know about me, what's better than demonstrating to him how I work and live... Look: this is my experience and if you don't like the presentation of my résumé, I'll go off and work somewhere else !!!. As you know, some, many, most companies retail ink-jet printers a low prices so that they can recuperate vast profits at selling very expensive ink. Of course this approach of refilling would probably not work for my four colour printers use for printing photographs, as the inks of the right hues and tints don't appear available by other brands.--Aspro (talk) 19:15, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
Lest people believe that Aspro's anecdote regarding printer ink, the very best French Champagne (a redundancy since all Champagne originates in France) - Dom Pérignon Rose Gold '96 - actually costs about $49,000, and inkjet ink - though pricey in its own right - does not cost anywhere near that much.--WaltCip (talk) 19:56, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
Does your odd exceptions prove the rule? Tell me where you buy or steal your catriages from please! Printer ink seven times more expensive than Dom Perignon Unless of course... your in the habit of buying very rare 1947 vintage printer ink at exorbitant prices in which case I suppose Champagne might seem cheaper..--Aspro (talk) 20:38, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
We're getting off topic, but Consumer Reports[4] puts the price of printer ink between $13 and $75 per fluid ounce, depending on brand. A wine bottle full of the stuff would therefore cost between $330 and $1900. I did some quick estimates (independent of the CR numbers) with a cartridge I happened to have handy, and I think the wine-bottle price would be about $705. So that checks out.
So, sure "Very best" is a sky's the limit sort of thing with Champagne, but ink jet ink is sure pricier than your average bottle of perfectly nice champagne. ApLundell (talk) 13:33, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
That's a clever rhetorical trick. A vial of cheap vanilla extract is $4.50 but if you filled a wine bottle with it, it would be $124.50 and up, which costs more than most bottles of high-tier wine and bubbly. But in any case, you're more likely to get two or three months use out of a cartridge of printer ink. Unless you are being absolutely penurious, you can't make a champagne bottle last for two or three months after opening it. --WaltCip (talk) 13:49, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
You can get a pint of vanilla for about $20 bucks, though. (Or about $30/wine bottle) Most people understand that with that small vial you're mostly paying for the bottle and the handling.
I think the reason the comparison resonates so well with ink cartridges is that you're required to buy it in tiny containers quantities that run out often. We all know that it'd be massively cheaper if we could just buy the ink in a bottle, but for consumer-level printers, you can't.
So how about Fountain Pens? If you have a cartridge pen, you pay about $5 for a pack of 12 cartridges of 1.4ml each. That's about $220 per wine bottle. On the other hand, if you bought a small 30ml ink bottle[5] for about $15, you'd pay $375 per wine bottle, So maybe fountain pen ink isn't so much cheaper than printer ink after all. ApLundell (talk) 14:16, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
Check the prices on well printer ink. The whole point is you save money on ink because the printer stores large quantities of ink. (talk) 14:44, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
Large quantities of ink? In a printer cartridge? Those big cartridges are full of sponge. That sponge takes up most of the volumetric space. Open one up and see for yourself. The actual ink inside those big cartage is very small. Try refilling one and you'll find the spong becomes saturated and full before you have even thought you started. That'll demonstrate how little ink is contained within.--Aspro (talk) 17:03, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
  • They're very similar and they will interwork, in some cases. However each type also includes a large variation range within that type. Not all fountain pen inks are usable in all pens. Far from all inkjet inks can be used in all inkjets.
They both work at a small scale, so bulk viscosity is less important than surface effects, and their attraction to other materials. But yes, modern inkjets are very low viscosity and need to be. More importantly, some inkjets work by mechanically spraying the ink, some by heating it and causing vapourisation, thus gas pressure. Those are very fussy, as their thermal behaviour is important. One needs to boil easily, one mustn't (even the physically propelled ink gets heated in the process).
Some also have unusual chemistry. H-P had a patented ink for later cartridges on the original DeskJet that reacted with acidic papers to become moderately waterproof. One of the few inkjets that could print envelopes that didn't wash clean in the rain - at least until the office stationery was upgraded to a better grade of white paper! Andy Dingley (talk) 14:33, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
Inkjet ink is very specialized ink, as you've noted. These are the properties that I know of:
  • Must be able to be heated to vaporization and cooled to room temperature without changing the physical characteristics of the ink (Most inkjet printers heat the ink).
  • Must be able to go from a pool of liquid to a stream of microscopic droplets instantly.
  • Must be able to accelerate almost instantly to 300mph (approximate speed of inkjet sprayers).
  • Must be able to go through nozzles thinner than a human hair without sticking to the walls of the nozzle.
  • Must not splatter when going from 300mph to a dead stop on a sheet of paper.
  • Must not bleed into nearby ink.
  • Must dry almost instantly.
The comparison of inket ink to fine champagne above is rather accurate. Inkjet ink is not your average Bic quality ink. Many years of research (that is still going) has been used to perfect this very special blend of ink. (talk) 14:42, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

March 23

Edits by Edward321 Help

disputed edits belong at the article's or editor's talk pages, or WP:ANI, but NOT here. μηδείς (talk) 22:46, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Please would you check the edits made on 22 and 23 March 2017 by Edward321 to the Wikipedia entry "Nader El-Bizri" and to some of its associated Wikipedia reference entries. The edits of Edward321 are extreme and radical and this might need some editorial intervention from your senior editors to look into them 2A02:C7D:36C6:8300:ED41:35E8:6F5B:3CE5 (talk) 14:29, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Hello, IP editor. I see that, before you posted this request, you reverted two of Edward321's edits to Nader El-Bizri. You are entitled to revert edits that you think are not good, but rather than then launching an appeal to "senior editors" (who don't exist: some are more experienced than others, but there is not a hierarchy of seniority like that), you should discuss the matter with Edward321, normally on the article's talk page: see WP:BRD. If you think this is not just a disagreement about content but a behavioural issue (eg vandalism), you may post a request on the WP:administrators' noticeboard/incidents or WP:Administrator intervention against vandalism noticeboards; but if you do so you must have attempted to engage with the editor in question first. For what it's worth, I can't see any problem with Edward321's edits to that article, but I know next to nothing about the subject. --ColinFine (talk) 22:21, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

March 24

Cold War

When did the Cold War begin? Some say that it began with Churchill's Iron Curtain speech in 1946, others that it began with the Berlin blockade in 1948. So which is it -- or was there yet another event which started it? 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 07:03, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

The article says "Historians do not fully agree on the dates." ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 07:35, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
12 April 1945 - because while Roosevelt felt that it was possible to do a deal with Stalin, Truman didn't trust him. So Truman becoming president was the moment at which the course of East-West relations changed. Wymspen (talk) 18:51, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
This is yet another Platonic Ideal question that assumes words have meanings in the way that bodies have mass. A term has a meaning in a context, and it is up to the user to define his term (on some reasonable basis) and use it consistently. We cannot give such REAL DEFINITIONS here, just refer to how people use such terms. μηδείς (talk) 21:13, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
Wymspen, that date you quoted would be, like, your personal opinion, no? Unless it overrides the statement from our article quoted by Baseball Bugs. In which case, of course, you would have a reference to that effect, wouldn't you? So, don't be shy, let's have it. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 21:30, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

How do they prove when people are faking mental illness for welfare payments

How does the disability benefits agency prove when people are faking mental illness? It's easy when people claim to have a bad back or a lost leg and then they are caught working cash in hand on a building site. But how can faked mental illness be proved? For example anxiety, depression and schizophrenia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 09:08, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

PS: I do not know why this keeps being deleted. Welfare fraud / Disability fraud is a very real thing and a big issue for the economies of many countries. This is a valid question and very reasonable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 09:50, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

There are criteria for diagnosing mental disorders just as much as for other illnesses, e.g. the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. It's not easier to fake, say, a depression than to fake an unspecified back pain. In legal situations, illnesses are diagnosed using standard criteria by suitable experts - normally a qualified physician. If there is reason to doubt one diagnosis, a second or third expert can be consulted. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 11:40, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
  • OP, you are providing us with the answers (you've linked to the relevant articles) and you are asking us to conduct a broad discussion of the topic, not any specific case,law, disease, or jurisdiction. Per the guidelines at the top of the page, that is why someone has previously deleted your question, and we can't answer it. Specific requests for articles or links on specific topics are much better. μηδείς (talk) 01:19, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Continuning disputer over Nader El-Bizri

disputes over articles do not belong at the ref desks; see admin warning below
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Dear Administrators, please help with professional edits in checking whether tags added and/or restored in connection with the entry "Nader El-Bizri" are justified, and kindly assist in directing this query to administrators or professional editors who can help improve it. Apologies if this query is not directed to the right administrators but perhaps you can kindly help with this matter. Thanks2A02:C7D:36C6:8300:3DE7:5B4A:4EE8:E3CB (talk) 10:55, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

When referencing an article here please wikilink it, so that we can easily go to it ourselves: Nader El-Bizri.
I only looked at the first few references, but:
Ref 1 doesn't work
Ref 2 is not independent of the subject
Ref 3 isn't a reference at all, but a footnote, as are several others.
Refs 4 and 5 are both by the subject.
We need multiple substantial independent references from reliable sources to show that Dr El-Bizri is notable and qualifies for an article. There are no "professional editors" who can help you with this, nor is this within the remit of those volunteers who have been granted administrator powers. The tags currently on the article seem to me to be completely justified. Rojomoke (talk) 11:33, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
Hi, 2A02:C7D:36C6:8300:3DE7:5B4A:4EE8:E3CB. Since you're editing from many fluctuating IPs in the 2A02:C7D:36C6:8300::/64 range, I'll speak to you here rather than on one of your many user talkpages, which you're less likely to see. If you continue to remove the tags, I will block the entire range you have access to. Bishonen | talk 15:44, 24 March 2017 (UTC).

Bills in the UK parliament

When a bill is voted on in the House of Commons (or Lords), is there a minimum number of votes that have to be cast in order for the bill to pass? 2A02:C7D:5DC6:3F00:E59B:1141:7F95:B5DE (talk) 21:44, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

Having found the answer in the relevant public business Standing Orders (Commons #41 and Lords #57, if anyone cares), there is indeed a minimum number of votes. Forty in the Commons (counting the Speaker or his deputy) and thirty in the Lords. As far as I can see, however, this only applies if the question is pressed to a division (vote). If the person in the chair just says "I think the ayes have it" and no one says to the contrary, then since there is no procedure for counting there can't be a minimum number. (talk) 22:17, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
Excellent, thank you very much! 2A02:C7D:5DC6:3F00:E59B:1141:7F95:B5DE (talk) 22:31, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
That's interesting, because these things are generally the same in Canada, but this one isn't. See Canada Day#History, the paragraph about how it was renamed by private member's bill. -- (talk) 23:07, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

March 25

SSBSA degree

Does anybody know what SSBSA (and its not the Somerset Small Bore Shooting Association) stands for? It came up in a résumé the other day where the applicant stated they had, along with some others, an SSBSA degree. They received it from St. Lawrence College which given they went to Queen's University is probably St. Lawrence College, Ontario. I looked at the St. Lawrence site but didn't see anything. The degree may have some relationship to real estate. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 01:54, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

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