Wikipedia:External links/Noticeboard

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Discussion at Talk:Opinion polling for the French presidential election, 2017#Embedded links in lieu of inline citations

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Opinion polling for the French presidential election, 2017#Embedded links in lieu of inline citations. -- Marchjuly (talk) 02:52, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Choice of social network as official site.

On Marnie Simpson I am challenged that "Facebook isn't classed as an official website for anything .." by User:Davey2010. To me, it is a website controlled by the subject, and hence is an official website as defined under WP:ELOFFICIAL, as are twitter, google+, instagram etc. Hence, in case of multiple official websites, we choose one of them, and only one. Thoughts? --Dirk Beetstra T C 18:02, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

  • As far as I know if an official website isn't listed then we should list all of their social medias, I personally don't see the harm in listing their Facebook, Twitter and Youtube channel, obviously things like Instagram, snapchat etc shouldn't be included because they're not relevant to the article but things like their FB & Twitter are, Thanks, –Davey2010Talk 18:06, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
  • We generally discourage links to social networking per WP:ELNO #10, but if there is no official website (as in <subject>.com), we should link to all social networking sites, except for the ones that you do not deem relevant? Disclaimer, Barring some exceptions where the subject is particularly known for certain social network activity, I don't think that any are encyclopedically relevant (see also WP:ELNO), and generally only leave one if there is not a more relevant personal outlet of the subject available (as in the subject's homepage, or a personal blog). --Dirk Beetstra T C 05:47, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
Marnie Simpson does not mention Twitter as having any significance to the subject so there is no reason (per WP:EL) to include a link. There is no logic in the claim that all social media sites should be listed if no official website is available. Wikipedia is not a linkfarm or a substitute for Google. Johnuniq (talk) 06:01, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
If there's no one <subject>.com, one criterion might be that we try to pick the social media site with the most links to the subject's other social media sites. --Izno (talk) 13:22, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
I prefer to pick the social media site that best meets the ELOFFICIAL purpose: "Official links (if any) are provided to give the reader the opportunity to see what the subject says about itself". I'd go with the Facebook link in this case. --Ronz (talk) 15:48, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
That rationale makes sense too. --Izno (talk) 16:11, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

This is still something that I have difficulty with when we get to the 'less informative' social networking sites: which one to choose. If we have 'subject.com'-type, then all go. If that one is not there, but we have a blog, then the blog is the second one. If there is also no blog, then generally go for Facebook. Then the problem starts: when we have an instagram and a snapchat (or similar combinations). Randomly take one? --Dirk Beetstra T C 11:18, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

In addition to looking for which site best presents the subject, I look for aspects of notability as well. For example, a performer might be best able to present him/herself through video (via a YouTube channel) rather than through Facebook. --Ronz (talk) 17:10, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
@Ronz: I do make that choice, and when it comes to official .com's, official blogs, facebook or youtube, a choice is often easy (and for artists that have e.g. sprung to live significantly because of youtube, I would even leave the youtube next to an official .com). The problem starts with pages which have none of those first 4 listed, and we have only twitters, snapchats, instagrams, flickrs, ... the social networking sites that are mere pictures of things they see around them, or things that spring to their mind at a random moment. It is a bit what I hope to put in order in the below section, and maybe we can add a 'note' to ELNO 10 & 11 / ELMINOFFICIAL what all encompasses a 'official website of a subject', and which one generally to choose (unless there is a compelling reason to ignore that order - I could see reasons when a person has a rather informative facebook and a less informative twitter feed, but is a twitter personality because of whatever reason). --Dirk Beetstra T C 03:53, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Extensive list of 'personal website' hosts

Do we have somewhere an extensive list of anything that is considered 'personal' as per WP:ELOFFICIAL? In cleaning up, there are some that are unclear whether they are totally maintained by the subject:

  • <subject>.tld (e.g. bbc.com for BBC), or sometimes <organisation>.tld/subject (e.g. bbc.com/<program>, where BBC is the producer of <program> and is maintaining that as the main website for the subject
  • blogs - blogger/blogspot (spora.jp?)
  • facebook
  • weibo
  • twitter
  • snapchat
  • instagram

Are there any more I missed (SoundCloud?)? --Dirk Beetstra T C 11:18, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

I don't get what you're asking. As far as I know either internal clues ("This is the official website of X") or external sources ("blahblah.com is the official website of X") are main starting points for figuring out whether a site is official. I don't suppose the Town of Ocean View, Iowa (or whatever) would maintain official records on Snapchat or Instragram or whatever, but I guess they could, so I'm not sure if we need a list of sites which we can never consider anything hosted on them to be official, if that's what you are asking. Herostratus (talk) 04:46, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
@Herostratus: No, what I am asking are on which domains subjects can have an 'official website' of themselves. That is their own official website, their own official blog, their own official facebook, their own official weibo, their own official twitter (&c.). Those can all be an official website of a subject, they are in principle all controlled by the subject alone (barring hacking attempts and influence from agents etc., I presume that what Donald Trump posts on his twitter is what he types on his device himself). Per WP:ELMINOFFICIAL, we only list one (and then generally the one that the subject uses as their main personal outlet / which one is most informative about them). IMDB or Wikipedia, as examples, is not controlled by the subject - they may be editing the pages, but everyone in the world has access to change it to something else.
What I am trying to establish are a 'complete' list of the social networking sites out there, which lists should be 'reduced to one' (barring exceptions like Donald Trump). Are SoundClouds totally controlled by the subject? Are Bandcamps totally controlled by the subject, .... I am then targetting to put that list into WP:ELPEREN to explain the WP:ELMINOFFICIAL requirements (and avoid having to go through these discussions over and over), and get a rough 'order of information content regarding the subject' on all of them. --Dirk Beetstra T C 07:00, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
Oh, OK. Herostratus (talk) 12:38, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Bitterne Park School Exposed

There is a slow, but tedious, edit war at the Bitterne Park School article concerning the inclusion of a link to http://bitterneparkschoolexposed.info/. The website details the suicide of a pupil at the school from the parents' point of view and makes various claims concerning the school's actions concerning that particular incident, and the culture at the school more generally. It could be argued that the website is malicious and possibly defamatory and should therefore be removed; it could equally be argued the site adds an important additional perspective on the subject of the article. WP:EXT doesn't seem particularly clear in this case. WaggersTALK 15:53, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

I would be remove all but official link and hope that editors would focus on article content.
The "Bitterne Park School Exposed" link is simply off topic. The Wikipedia article is about the school. The "Exposed" site is about Amber Jackson. --Ronz (talk) 17:31, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
Dont think it is relevant to the school article as it is really an attack page by grieving parents trying to look for answers, not our place to right wrongs or provide an platform for negative comments on living persons albeit not the subject of the article. Suggest it is removed. MilborneOne (talk) 19:18, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
Thanks both, your input is much appreciated. Seems we have a consensus! WaggersTALK 21:26, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Wealdstone F.C.

On Wealdstone F.C., user:Craigw87 insists that the twitter, facebook and youtube channel belong next to the official page, as does a link to a supporters' club (fanclub). Craigw87 has been repeatedly pointed WP:ELMINOFFICIAL/WP:NOT#REPOSITORY/WP:EL#EL11 and WP:ELNO, but I presume they have an argument why these links belong. I am awaiting the answer here. --Dirk Beetstra T C 12:03, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

There's no need for links to the team's social media accounts per WP:ELMINOFFICIAL, especially now that I've replaced the link to the official website with a link to an inner page where links to the each of them are prominently displayed; therefore, I have removed them again. I'm not sure about fan club link since item 4 of WP:ELMAYBE does say that sometimes such links may be acceptable.
FWIW, Craigw87 is an WP:SPA who probably just does not know about things such as ELMINOFFICIAL. Hopefully, he will see the posts left on his user talk page and decide to engage in disucssion here. However, if he continues to re-add the links without any attempt at discussion, then there may be no other option than WP:AN3. -- Marchjuly (talk) 13:40, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for talking more to the editor. The editor just chose to ignore my pointers repeatedly. Engagements on talkpages are then generally not fruitful either. --Dirk Beetstra T C 14:38, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
I've removed the fan site, which is linked from the official site and is specifically excluded per ELNO#11. --Ronz (talk) 15:17, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
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