Wikipedia:Education noticeboard

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This page is for discussion of items that relate to student assignments and the Wikipedia Education Program. Please feel free to post, whether you're from a class, a potential class, or if you're a Wikipedia editor.

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See also


Copy-paste merging versus history-merging

Followup to the already archived Wikipedia:Education noticeboard/Archive 16#Proposal for update in the student instructions for moving drafts into mainspace. See Wikipedia talk:Merging#When to request a histmerge. You might consider making the archiving of this page a little less aggressive, so I'm not forced to create a fork of a discussion that's less than a month old. – wbm1058 (talk) 15:59, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

@Wbm1058: 7 days is rather aggressive, isn't it. I think that's a hold-over from when course announcements were all posted here rather than a subpage, making the page fairly unwieldy when not archived frequently. I've changed it to 30 days -- we'll see how that works. And thanks for the link. I'll take a look at this on Monday, but wanted to comment that this is definitely something we want to spend time on this summer, revising training materials prior to the fall 2017 courses starting. I've added DNAU to this thread to ensure it's here at that time. Also want to ping Shalor (Wiki Ed), the content expert working with that class in particular. --Ryan (Wiki Ed) (talk) 17:29, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

See also Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/688809 Memory/Archive. We need adequate notice of student editing, and course instructors shouldn't be assigning the task of writing multiple content forks of the same topic, leaving it for overworked volunteers to clean up. – wbm1058 (talk) 12:22, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

I apologise for dropping the ball on that one, I started preparing the page about the course but didn't share it on the announcement noticeboard. Advance notice of editing would certainly have helped, but the students' accounts remain blocked. Please could the blocks be lifted? Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 12:29, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
I don't think just an announcement on a noticeboard is sufficient. Most editors are not monitoring these noticeboards. There should be some indication on the editor's user or user talk page, such as Template:Student editor (e.g., like this). It should link to their assignment, so we can see what their objective is. wbm1058 (talk) 12:48, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
Note how Wikipedia:Wiki Ed/Rutgers University/Languages in Peril Section II (Spring 2017) lists each student in the class, along with the titles of the Wikipedia articles that they are working on.
Wikipedia:Outreach Dashboard/Swansea University/LAA319 - Competition Law doesn't have a similar list of students and articles. – wbm1058 (talk) 12:53, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
OK, I see that course runs until 28 June 2017. Can these closely related articles either be merged, or clearly differentiated using WP:summary style so that it's clear they are not forks covering the same topic? wbm1058 (talk) 13:18, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
Just to comment on noticeboard announcements, though wbm1058 has since clarified that's not necessarily the question here, I don't think there's a formal process for announcing Education Program classes in general. Wikipedia:Education noticeboard/Wiki Ed course submissions is a page of notices automatically (or semi-automatically) generated by the Wiki Ed Dashboard), but I don't think WMF has incorporated an equivalent into the Programs and Events Dashboard (classes outside the US/CA), so the best way to stay up on that would probably be to keep tabs on the Dashboard itself. --Ryan (Wiki Ed) (talk) 12:51, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
Btw, Wbm1058, I don't know if you saw this, but from the page you linked you can click the "Dashboard" link at the top and then go to the "students" tab to see the list of students and assigned articles (though it looks like most have not added an article yet -- perhaps that's what you mean). --Ryan (Wiki Ed) (talk) 13:32, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
Thanks, no I didn't find that until you pointed it out. But there I see "Assignment End: 2017-05-10", so it's not clear to me whether the course is still active, and whether the students will return to editing if their accounts are unlocked. Sockpuppet investigations isn't an area I'm active in administratively, so I'm unclear on proper procedures for reopening an investigation and unblocking editors... if we can wait on User:Bbb23 to do it then I'm sure it will be done the right way. – wbm1058 (talk) 13:43, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
  • I'll keep an eye on students doing this. This summer we're going to be working on refining some of our handouts and instructions, so this will definitely be something we look at. :) Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 12:55, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Frankly, folks, Wiki Ed drives me crazy. You have no idea how many cases are brought to WP:SPI from which, understandably, blocks ensue and then along comes someone to say, oh, these are students. How are we supposed to know that? There should be a clear notice on their userpage as to who they are and a link to the program. It would be better for you, the students, and the various unsuspecting editors at Wikipedia who become involved. I'm not going to spontaneously look at a Wiki Ed venue every time I evaluate a case. Unless you start cleaning up your procedures, this won't be the last time this happens. I will unblock the four accounts and remove the sock tags from their userpages (no need to reopen the case). Someone else can deal with the undeleting of any pages that were deleted. BTW, Richard, you should not have edited the SPI archive. Instead, you should have gone to Wbm1058, to me, or to an SPI clerk to make your request. I'm sure Wiki Ed is a lot of work and you, of course, provide a valuable service to Wikipedia and to the outside community, so I apologize for being, uh, brusque.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:22, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
  • @Bbb23: Every class working with Wiki Ed (the Wiki Education Foundation) should have a list of students on the course page, a tag on every student's user page, and a tag on the articles they work on (there are some exceptions to the latter based on the way sandboxes are handled). I think that you're probably talking about the parts of the Education Program that aren't Wiki Ed? That seems like it could be addressed by incorporating the templating procedures into the P&E Dashboard. @Sage (Wiki Ed): who is the best person to ask about that at WMF (or otherwise)? --Ryan (Wiki Ed) (talk) 14:41, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
  • If the P&E Dashboard was set up to automatically create a page on-wiki listing editors involved that would be very helpful. Currently it has to be manually set up which relies on my (very much fallible) memory. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 15:41, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
  • @Ryan (Wiki Ed): Are you saying that this program with these users was not part of Wiki Ed?--Bbb23 (talk) 14:45, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
  • @Bbb23: The Wiki Education Foundation ("Wiki Ed" for short) manages the Wikipedia Education Program for institutions in the United States and Canada. WMF manages the Education Program elsewhere, along with various chapters. --Ryan (Wiki Ed) (talk) 14:50, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Ah, I'll try to remember that. And here I thought the only Foundation I had to bitch about was the WMF. A new target for my irritation.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:59, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
  • I see that m:Education is a disambiguation page. It would be nice, and less confusing for unaffiliated, independent editors and administrators, if the Wikipedia Education Program, a program of Wikimedia Outreach (why is that page tagged as "historical" if the Education Program still uses their logo and Outreach has its own wiki?), had all of their chapters, including WMUK, using the same standards and procedures developed by the Wiki Education Foundation, which I presume is no longer a proposed Wikimedia thematic organization, as the disambiguation page still claims? wbm1058 (talk) 15:45, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
@Bbb23: WikiEd haven't done anything wrong here (and do an excellent job) this course is under my auspices rather than theirs. I agree that student accounts should include a note on their user page that they are taking part in an educational course and I will make sure that happens. Thank you for taking the time to unblock the accounts. I apologise for the extra work this has created and appreciate that it is taking up your volunteer time. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 15:39, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
@Richard Nevell (WMUK): Not to worry, many of my comments are tongue-in-cheek, although I have had some negative experiences in the past. This is the first time I've learned something useful, i.e., the division of responsibility. Happy teaching.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:44, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
@Bbb23: Yes, there are different hubs of activity. For future courses (not just this one but others I'm involved) I'll be making sure students have a notice on their user page and on talk pages as Ryan said is compulsory for WikiEd courses. Currently I recommend it for courses WMUK assists, but it should be a requirement rather than a recommendation. Please could 826540MAH (talk · contribs) 838181CDC (talk · contribs) 838463swanseauni (talk · contribs) Elinahh (talk · contribs) Nfyfe826276 (talk · contribs) also be unblocked? Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 16:00, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
 Done.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:37, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
An important responsibility for any class assignment, no matter which program advises it, is to put Template:Educational assignment on the talk page of every article being worked on. That's the first and foremost way to let other editors know that these are student editors, and not something else. Then, as also mentioned above, students should put Template:Student editor on their own userpages – and of course there should be a course page that clearly identifies the instructor. These steps can go a long way towards preventing such problems as mistaking student edits for socking, and also help a lot with keeping communication open with other editors. I think that all programs that work with student assignments should try to make these things clear to all classes they work with. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:27, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Automatic edits from Programs & Events Dashboard

@Richard Nevell (WMUK), Wbm1058, Bbb23, and Ryan (Wiki Ed): I'm currently mentoring User:Medhabansal for an internship project to enable edits from Programs & Events Dashboard, which would let us enable some of the edits that the Wiki Ed Dashboard makes on a wiki-by-wiki basis. The project just started, but hopefully within the next few months we can have the automatically-updated course pages and the userpage templates like for Wiki Ed courses. --Sage (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:58, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

That's a very encouraging development. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 15:14, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Online Ambassador application: Abdulrehimras

This extension was removed, nothing to do here. — xaosflux Talk 16:36, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Abdulrehimras

Abdulrehimras (talk · contribs)

  1. Why do you want to be a Wikipedia Ambassador?
    To have a wider platform and larger knowledge pool to impart academia
  2. In three sentences or less, summarize your involvement with Wikimedia projects.
    YOUR ANSWER (OPTIONAL)
  3. Please indicate a few articles to which you have made significant content contributions. (e.g. DYK, GA, FA, major revisions/expansions/copyedits).
    Revisions
  4. How have you been involved with welcoming and helping new users on Wikipedia?
    Yes
  5. What do you see as the most important ways we could welcome newcomers or help new users become active contributors?
    Guide them through
  6. Have you had major conflicts with other editors? Blocks or bans? Involvement in arbitration? Feel free to offer context, if necessary.
    No
  7. How often do you edit Wikipedia and check in on ongoing discussions? Will you be available regularly for at least two hours per week, in your role as a mentor?
    Yes Am regularly available online
  8. How would you make sure your students were not violating copyright laws?
    Teach them right
  9. If one of your students had an issue with copyright violation how would you resolve it?
    As a legal expert I have many avenues to resolve this
  10. In your _own_ words describe what copyright violation is.
    It is the use of another's creation without permission
  11. What else should we know about you that is relevant to being a Wikipedia Ambassador?
    Am learned, vastly knowledged and intelligent...

Abdulrehimras (talk) 19:15, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Endorsements

(Two endorsements are needed for online ambassador approval.)

Not done Thank you for your interest, however we are currently phasing out the MediaWiki extension which uses the Online Ambassador user right - TNT 💖 19:16, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Wiki Education's Monthly Report for August 2018 now available

Our Monthly Report for August is available as a PDF, on-wiki, and on our blog. Please reach out if you have any questions. Cassidy (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:34, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Help needed with setting up educational course page

Need a Course Page for a Student project, starting this week

Hi, I am running a student wikipage creation project at LIUC, Castellanza, Italy. This is the fifth year we've run this, and in the past it has resulted in some excellent new pages (not without some issues!). 3 years ago I had an educational course page but I've had no response to set up one in the past 2 years. I applied for one on this noticeboard and flagged the request on the student draft talk pages, but never heard back about it. Is there anything anyone can do to help me here, so I can just flag the draft pages up as an educational project on the respective Talk pages? Many thanks! Limelightangel (talk) 11:11, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

Hi Limelightangel, The Programs & Events Dashboard should have all that you need. I'll ping NSaad (WMF), who manages the Wikipedia Education Program for courses around the world, who may also have some more guidance. Cassidy (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:46, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
Many thanks Cassidy (Wiki Ed), I've set up the course, but the students draft pages have already been created via the Article Creation Wizard. Is there any way to now copy these 8 draft pages in to the new course location? Limelightangel (talk) 09:03, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
Hi Limelightangel, The short answer is no. The Programs & Events Dashboard doesn't provide locations for article drafts or do any on-wiki edits, so it'll be up to them to navigate the article creation process from where they are... presumably in Draft namespace. Cassidy (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:33, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

Potentially problematic course

I know there's nothing we can do to change the minds of some professors, but is there more that we could/should do above and beyond my comment here about a user "poaching a student's edits"? Primefac (talk) 14:34, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

@Primefac: I'm confused by the userpage of the professor. Is that Drmies? Natureium (talk) 16:38, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
Yes, it’s the account he uses for teaching. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:45, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
That page is confusing? Anyway, Primefac, I think you completely missed my point, sorry--maybe I wasn't clear. First of all, there is no calculus about this edit and that edit being this many points--but what JC7V7DC5768 was doing was exactly the kind of thing that I would ask the student to do, in the next class session. JC7V7DC5768 is a pretty decent editor, so they made that edit, and Wikipedia appreciates it--as for me, I made the comment I made in hopes that next time they'd see it was a student editor, and would consider gently steering the editor toward making that kind of edit, cause that's good for the student and for Wikipedia. I can't blame JC7V7DC5768 for not doing that, far from it; like I said, I'd have given them points if I could, or a sticker. But when I run into articles that I see is part of some project, I sort of slow down and step out of regular editing mode, since I know it's easy for me to find something else to do on Wikipedia--for a brand-new editor it is not.

Second, I never accused poor JC7V7DC5768 of poaching anything; again, they're not in my class, haha. If they were, they'd have gotten an A for their midterm progress report. And the student is not getting penalized for anything, of course--but they will have to look elsewhere to make significant edits. That's all I was saying. No, the moment we get complicated with detailed rubrics and all that, that is the day this is no longer fun to do. It's already hard enough because, as you can see, half the class is pretty much sitting on their hands...

JC7V7DC5768, are you still reading this? I hope you understood my point. You're a fine editor, and that quick check to see what's going on (you already took the time to look into it) will make you an even finer editor, and will bring out the collaborative aspect of the project. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 21:19, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Well... yup that's egg on my face. Yes, I did misread, and no I didn't even look to see that it was Drmies behind the edit. Thanks for setting me straight! Primefac (talk) 23:13, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Drmies Thank you for the feedback. You are a fine editor too. Keep up the good work. JC7V-constructive zone 21:39, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

@Drmies: Is there a reason you're not instructing your students to use Draft space, or maybe this student didn't take that advice? I ask because even after the edits JC7V7DC5768 did, when I came across it through NPP I still spent some time exploring notability (in general I don't start examining the creator of the page until later in my process so I hadn't known it was created by a student editor). Obviously she is notable and I marked the page as reviewed, but that's at least two editors who maybe could have spent time doing something else to benefit the encyclopedia. It's unlikely someone would have found it in Draft space and spent time improving it thus giving your student more of the educational opportunity you and she were hoping for. And for the record I think Primefac, Naturium, Ian, Drmies, and JC7V7DC5768 are all fine editors Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 21:49, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
Non sequitur, Barkeep: from the behavior of my students you cannot determine what I tell them, I'm afraid, but you can look at the syllabus--of course I tell them to start in draft space. They're also students, and some of them miss class and don't listen and whatnot. At least this one listened to the extent that they picked up on an item on one of Rosiestep's lists, and didn't just picked a stupid drag racer or a bridge no one cares about... What I was asking for is some situational awareness. If a group of students make a mess of something (years ago a whole bunch of them were editing Marie de France-related articles, blissfully unaware of our guidelines), then we should step in, of course. But the moment we realize something is a student article, we should tread lightly and keep an eye on things, preventing BLP and copyright violations and such of course, and assist the editor rather than do the work for them. That editor can be more important in the long run than the one article. Drmies (talk) 22:39, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for clarifying. As a teacher myself I understand students don't always follow the suggestions given by their teacher. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 22:44, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
@Drmies: Very probably this is something that I don't need to tell you, but just in case, WP:ASSIGN has a lot of useful information, including a section for students (or at least for those who follow directions). --Tryptofish (talk) 22:43, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
Shoot--you just reminded me I got some work to do on my syllabus. Thanks. Drmies (talk) 01:17, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

OLES2129

Caught this from Brainspotting being created yet again.

Seems to be a class?

pings

-- Jytdog (talk) 01:51, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

pages created so far:

some drafts

-- Jytdog (talk) 14:38, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Hi Jytdog, Looks like this course is editing from the University of Sydney. Here’s their page on the P&E Dashboard. I’ll alert the instructor Fransplace to this discussion. Cassidy (Wiki Ed) (talk) 17:43, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
Thank you! None of those students linked back there. 266 students! Yikes. Jytdog (talk) 18:35, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
Thank you Cassidy (Wiki Ed) and Jytdog! I haven't received alerts about these. I'm receiving emails from students (on Brainspotting and another). Students are asked to be logged into the Dashboard any time they're editing but some forget. I'm in discussions now with the student who wrote the "Brainspotting" article but can't see what was deleted. Fortunately we have her drafts on Word docs and I might be able to see what the problem is. We are working very hard to monitor what students are doing and are putting their text through Turnitin before they upload to the Mainspace. There are always going to be students who do the bare minimum, don't listen and don't follow strict instructions, but considering that there haven't been too many problems. There are 296 students BTW, not 266 - just to show how many haven't followed the instructions to link to the Dashboard at all (and you've noted that none of those students you picked up Jytdog didn't link back there). We're doing our best and are really grateful for your advice, help, etc. Please let me know what we could be doing better and keep nudging us if you see something wrong. This is the first Wikipedia course at my university and is credit bearing. We'd like to make it the best it can be so that we can continue to show the legitimacy of Wikipedia. Fransplace 22:12, 17 October 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fransplace (talkcontribs)
Hi again Cassidy (Wiki Ed) and Jytdog. My fellow teachers and I are trying to teach students to navigate processes, create and edit articles to ensure that the most accurate information is accessible to people that are looking for it on Wikipedia. I have a copy of the student's draft (submitted to our institutional "Turnitin" software before she created the Wikipedia page) and it showed no notable similarity with anything online. I can see that previous articles deleted in 2009 and 2017 contained information that was supported the developer of the method, Grand (affecting the objectivity of the article etc) and other sources considered to be unreliable. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Brainspotting_(2nd_nomination). Even though Grand was also one of the sources used by our student, her article included peer-reviewed academic sources from the fields of Cognitive Psychology, Clinical Psychology, Psychiatry, and Integrative Psychotherapy. I would like to suggest, in the interests of improving general knowledge about this topic and the quality of information that is available online and on Wikipedia, that we allow the student to revise what she has written, add more academic sources and put a greater emphasis on making sure the article balances the pros and cons or acceptance and rejection of the claims as both exist. Would you be willing to consider this approach and if so, will you allow a new page to be created and reviewed by Wikipedia editors before being moved to the mainspace? Fransplace 00:51, 18 October 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fransplace (talkcontribs)
This terrible thing was moved to mainspace; i thought for sure that was a paid editor, and I moved to draft space and cleaned up the COPYVIO and BLP violations some. it is now at Draft:Wildfox Couture. The creator is listed in the class page as one of the editors. This class is way too big, it seems. Jytdog (talk) 19:57, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
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