Template talk:Public holidays in the United States

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WikiProject Holidays (Rated Template-class)
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Notes

I don't know if Festivus should've been removed from this template. I mean, it's entered our culture so deeply at this point that there's little reason to not call it an official holiday. Huh (talk) 18:07, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

How the heck is Festivus a fictional holiday?!

Perhaps everyone who has reverted my edits to this template have not read the page in question, hmmm? The page clearly states that Festivus is NOT a fictional holiday, and that it is celebrated across the country. It was not invented for that Seinfeld episode- that episode just popularized the holiday. Huh (talk) 15:33, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Yet this is not verified by a third party source. Has not wikipedia any standards? Rhetth (talk) 17:56, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Again, have you not read the page? Just about everything on the Festivus article is backed by references. The page is chock-full of references! Festivus is acknoweleged and celebrated by people across the country, and there's references to prove it. This is hardly a fictional holiday, and the next time Festivus is removed from this template with no better reason than "remove fictional holiday", I'll have to do something drastic. Huh (talk) 11:46, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
You do not have consensus to add this, and you have not provided a source that lists Festivus as a U.S. holiday, as requested above. I am removing it again until you make an effort to establish consensus on this talk page. BradV 16:47, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

I would dispute adding Festivus to this template. Talk like a pirate day is a holiday, it is even listed on my civic calendar; Towel day is an international "holiday", probably has an equal following. I would dispute any of these of these being added to this template. Yngvarr (t) (c) 02:03, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Festivus is a holiday celebrated in the U.S. Proof: [1] Basically the article is about the Festivus Pole that is set up outside the Illinois State Capitol. There is also this article [2] about students at Broward College. And for the mother of all proof [3] an article talking about how Festivus has become over-commercialized... a complaint about nearly every other holiday. That's my two cents... I think it should be put back.
-- RandorXeus. Remember to Be Bold! 06:13, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
That's all nice, but it still doesn't lend credence. As I said above, Talk Like a Pirate day is on my civic calender, and our offices celebrate it, along with National Hot Dog Day, and a host of other "holidays". Going to need more evidence to legitimize Festivus other than a collage fad, another civic phenomena and a satire piece. Yngvarr (t) (c) 15:18, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
So you're argument is that since Talk Like a Pirate Day isn't on this list, Festivus shouldn't be either? If anything, Talk Like a Pirate Day should be included, and Superbowl Sunday should be removed. There is more festivities associated with becoming a pirate for a day. And does the fact that multiple state or local governments have accepted it, and even voted to allow decorations on public property not show how it is legitimate?
Okay, maybe I'm just confused to what sort of evidence you want to show that it is not just "a college fad, another civic phenomena and a satire piece?" Other than what I've stated already, I cannot prove any more how Fesitvus is a holiday than how I could Arbor Day or Superbowl Sunday. What makes a holiday a holiday anyways? Valentine's Day became popular because of greeting card companies, so what is wrong with a holiday becoming popular from a television show?
-- RandorXeus. Remember to Be Bold! 16:29, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

It seems Festivus has grown in stature every year, and deserves a place on the list. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:39, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Article protected

I've protected the article to prevent further edit warring; please discuss the the matter on a talk page. Thanks, –Juliancolton Happy Holidays 16:54, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Needs Work

Since this is a template for US Holidays, it seems as if we should be linking to articles or sections about how that holiday is celebrated in the United States. It seems odd to click on one of the links and go to a page that just has one sentence and then sections for each region. Instead, I think the template should just link to the respective sections. Not all of them would have to be changed, only a few:

  1. Arbor Day#United States
  2. Father's Day#United States
  3. Mardi Gras#United States
  4. Cinco de Mayo#United States
  5. Children's Day#United States of America
  6. Christmas Eve#North America
  7. May Day#Americas
  8. Saint Patrick's Day#In the United States

Also, a few link to disambiguation or redirect pages. These include

  1. Fourth of July should link to Independence Day (United States)
  2. Flag Day should link to Flag Day in the United States
  3. Election Day should link to Election Day (United States)
  4. Mother's Day should link to Mother's Day (United States)
  5. Presidents Day and Washington's Birthday should be merged, since Presidents Day (United States) redirects to Washington's Birthday

Also, if we have Christmas Eve listed as a holiday, we need to include New Year's Eve.

If you were to do everything that I listed above, the new code would look like this:

{{Navbox
|name = US Holidays
|title = Holidays, Observances, and Celebrations in the United States of America
|titlestyle=background:#DDD4A5;
|groupstyle=background:#CCC3D5;
|image= [[Image:The Christmas carol.jpg|120px|Family Christmas]]
|group1=
|list1= [[April Fool's Day]] • [[Arbor Day#United States|Arbor Day]] • [[Children's Day#United States of America|Children's Day]] • [[Christmas|Christmas Day]] • [[Christmas Eve#North America|Christmas Eve]] • [[Cinco de Mayo#United States|Cinco de Mayo]] • [[Columbus Day]] <p> [[Earth Day]] • [[Easter]] • [[Election Day (United States)|Election Day]] • [[Father's Day#United States|Father's Day]] • [[Flag Day in the United States|Flag Day]] • [[Independence Day (United States)|Fourth of July]] <p> [[Groundhog Day]] • [[Grandparent's Day]] • [[Halloween]] • [[Kwanzaa]] • [[Labor Day]] • [[Lincoln's Birthday]] <p> [[Martin Luther King, Jr. Day]] • [[Mardi Gras#United States|Mardi Gras]] • [[May Day#Americas|May Day]] • [[Memorial Day]] • [[Mother's Day (United States)|Mother's Day]] <p> [[New Year's Day]] • [[New Year's Eve]] • [[Patriot's Day]] • [[Saint Patrick's Day#In the United States|St. Patrick's Day]] • [[Super Bowl Sunday]] • [[Thanksgiving]] <p> [[Valentine's Day]] • [[Veterans Day]] • [[Washington's Birthday|Presidents Day/Washington's Birthday]] • [[Yom Kippur]]
}}
<noinclude>
[[Category:Holidays|{{PAGENAME}}]]
</noinclude>
}}

Thanks! -- RandorXeus. Remember to Be Bold! 23:07, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Wouldn't Hanukkah be a U.S. Holiday?

I think that Hanukkah should be added to this list. There are many people in America who observe this holiday. Because of the other religious holidays that are included in this navbox, Hanukkah definitely meets the requirements. Is there any reason why we shouldn't add it?

-- RandorXeus. Remember to Be Bold! 07:30, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Dyngus Day

Need to add Dyngus Day to this list. Its an important Polish-American holiday, particularly in Northern Indiana and New York, but is growing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.115.155.55 (talk) 18:16, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

I would not even consider it a possibility. I never even heard of it and these are well known holidays. --EveryDayJoe45 (talk) 22:50, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

"Fourth of July" is not a thing.

It's Independence Day. Fourth of July is the date. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.33.32.75 (talk) 23:46, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Black Friday

Black Friday (shopping) is not a holiday, an observance, or a celebration in the United States of America and should not be included on this list. --Wolfer68 (talk) 20:45, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Actually it is. If it wasn't then what country is it present in? And if it isn't present anywhere, then why does it have a page? The Term Black Fridayis denoted for a specific date is it not? Is it a holiday? no. Is it an observence? absolutely. And its an observance soley in America following the American thanksgiving. I usually don't like to be an "ass", but you are absolutely wrong, and the way you're being arrogant about it makes it much worse. --EveryDayJoe45 (talk) 21:57, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
Wow. All I said was it is not a holiday and should not be on the list. How is stating my opinion being arrogant? Kind of overreactiing, aren't you? Note that I did not try to revert my change, after Black Friday was put back in, and I came here to add it to discussion. Please define though how we observe Black Friday. It's the day after a major holiday when a lot of people begin their Christmas shopping and retailers try to lure them to their stores. That's it. This really should be put up to a consensus. --Wolfer68 (talk) 00:08, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
It should not be included. It is a retail phenomena. Having an article does not signify holiday status. I don't recall there being "celebrations" for Black Friday. And while I've never intersected with Wolfer68, gonna have to agree with his assessment of your attack on him. Yngvarr (t) (c) 00:22, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
Its an observance, therefore it should stay. And the fact that it is indigenous to the US makes it even more note-worthy. And I would say it definitely is "celebrated". I don't know what you consider "celebrated", but how exactly does one celebrate Columbus Day? should we remove that too? --Tool academy (talk) 01:19, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
i really shouldn't have added that to the above comment, thats my bad. I'll just put it here. to answer the question heres how we celebrate it. "by having sales on cars at the local dealership? Whoaa that sound awfully familiar...". and its true Columbus day is a federal holiday, but if you're going by how we celbrate it, the above is a beautiful point. And if your only adding fed holidays, be prepared to eliminate basically the entire list. --EveryDayJoe45 (talk) 01:59, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
Columbus Day is an observance and, in fact, there are many Italians who do celebrate the day as part of their heritage. It seems that there may be other observances then that are missing from the list that would seem to fit the criteria, such as Opening Day and Tax Day. --Wolfer68 (talk) 08:35, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
first off, sorry for snapping earlier. I was in a bad mood earlier. But now to go along with your statement. Black Friday is an observance in Ameica. Theres no way you, Yngvarr, or anyone else is going to chabge that. Now if you want to change the template to read, "Holidays and Celbrations" instead of "Holidays, Observances and Celebrations", feel free, but good luck. --EveryDayJoe45 (talk) 17:49, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
Not gonna argue with you. The point is that there is no consensus for adding Black Friday to this template. Yngvarr (t) (c) 19:10, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
Black Friday is celebrated by people taking off work and waiting outside stores for several hours. Just waiting for them to open at sometimes 5am. It has become a tailgate party of sorts around here. Very much an observed day. Holiday? Maybe not but it's very close. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Softdaddy (talkcontribs) 04:25, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Mischief night

I'd also argue that Mischief night does not belong in this template. Reading the article, it seems something more common in Europe and Canada and only regionally done in the U.S. It's not really a well-known event. Senior Skip Day could as well be considered an observance more well known and celebrated within the U.S. --Wolfer68 (talk) 17:43, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

This falls into place with the one above, only this one is more reasonable, and I can see why you are against it. --EveryDayJoe45 (talk) 17:45, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
Mischief night? Far more people celebrate Festivus and Talk Like a Pirate Day yet they list Mischief night? Without verifiable sources to cite, I would say America observes it on Halloween, therefore its not an American Holiday at all because it is observed as a general part of Halloween. I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but if they list Mischief night, then Festivus should be listed as well.69.198.39.26 (talk) 19:55, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

May Day

Inquiring about the failure to include May Day as a (non-federal) US Holiday. It belongs here. Richard Myers (talk) 17:45, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

I have added May Day. Richard Myers (talk) 00:35, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Festivus (again)

I know there has already been a previous discussion on Festivus, but I would like us to revisit the issue. I simply don't think it should be included. Its article consists mainly of an in-universe (i.e. the Seinfeld universe) description of the holiday, then an extended "in popular culture" section that describes several people who received news attention for celebrating the holiday. I see nothing sourced that indicates that this holiday is widely practiced, but rather sourced isolated incidents. Surely the threshold for what is listed in this template is higher than that. Kansan (talk) 22:26, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Split into Days, Weeks, Months

I've been bold and split the holidays into three groups: Days, Weeks (or multiple weeks, shorter than a month), and Months. Objections? - dcljr (talk) 18:04, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

New Jersey Day is not a legal New Jersey Holiday

Per the NJ Dept. of State website, New Jersey Day is not a legal holiday. I think it should be removed. [4]. Roodog2k (talk) 18:41, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

RFC: What is the scope?

There is a clear (albeit limited) consensus, that template should be used in the following instances:
  • Declared official U.S. holidays
  • Declared official U.S. week-long observances
  • Proposed U.S. month-long observances
Armbrust The Homunculus 10:17, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

What holidays should be on this template of U.S. Holidays? Please list the following that you think is appropriate. Binksternet (talk) 05:03, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

  1. Declared official U.S. holidays
  2. Proposed U.S. holidays
  3. Declared official U.S. week-long observances
  4. Proposed U.S. week-long observances
  5. Declared official U.S. month-long observances
  6. Proposed U.S. month-long observances
  7. Previous official holidays, weeks, months
  8. Regional or multi-state holidays
  9. Single state holidays
  10. Month-long observances that are not federal
  11. Unofficial holidays and celebrations that some Americans observe

Discussion

  • 1, 3, 5 As the name of the article suggests, there should only be declared national U.S. holidays included. Single state holidays or proposed holidays do not belong on this page but instead could be placed into specific sub-articles, where they would fit in better. Maybe a page titled, Proposed U.S. Holidays could be introduced to include the holidays that don't find their way onto this page. Also, I think it would make sense to add the state-by-state holidays into their associated state's page. Meatsgains (talk) 19:55, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Darwin Day

How about it? Template-worthy or no? 71.236.253.188 (talk) 23:58, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Notable enough to have it's own page, which it does, but not enough to have a spot on the template for U.S. holidays. Maybe other users will disagree with me. Meatsgains (talk) 00:23, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

RfC: Classification of saints' days and other holidays

NAC: Consensus is No as to Valentine's Day, which has been dropped from the church calendar, and Halloween, which is not celebrated as All Saints Day, and Yes, as to St. Patrick's Day. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:16, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Should Valentine's Day, St. Patrick's Day and Halloween be marked as "religious" holidays? Ibadibam (talk) 21:52, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Discussion

  • Yes for saints' days, No for Halloween – The feasts of the saints Valentine and Patrick, commonly called Valentine's Day and St. Patrick's Day, have religious origins and still have that significance in Christian denominations in the US. They are no different from Easter and Christmas, which also have associated secular practices that overshadow the religious observances for many people. Halloween, on the other hand, does not have significant religious meaning in the US, despite its origins. Ibadibam (talk) 21:52, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
  • No They are secular holidays, more associated with the greeting-card and jewelry industries (Valentine's Day) and the liquor industry (St. Patrick's Day) than the Church. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 21:58, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
  • No Although Halloween is a religious holiday under its name of Samhain, the common celebration of Halloween itself is carried out in a secular fashion (candy, costumes, and the soaping of windows - Windows 7 in particular). Seems the common usage of Valentines Day is romantic and secular, and it, as well as Halloween, is celebrated by people of all religions and of no religion. St. Patricks Day has as its main celebration the hoisting of beer and the marching of the Irish, a holiday which commonly honors Ireland and all people of Irish descent rather than the person it is named after, as well as being a holiday honoring the coming of Spring in the northern hemisphere. Randy Kryn 12:50 13 December, 2014 (UTC)
  • No They might have religious origins, but in the US, they are neither actual holidays (as in time off from work) and for the most part they are only well known because of commercialism. Elmmapleoakpine (talk) 00:02, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
  • For St. Patrick's day, Yes. Not only does it have religious origins, religious Catholics remain very engaged with it's celebration in some place. For example, they have opposed gay participation in parades -- e.g., conflicts in Boston. Look at the WP article and it discusses when churches are involved. The religiosity is clearly contested in important places.
But is this a zero sum game -- can't it be marked as religious and also as (secular) regular holiday? After all, it isn't treated the same in every locale. Afaik, the other two are primarily secular nowadays, though perhaps there are local exceptions. Thanks! ProfGray (talk) 14:51, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Comment St. Patrick's Day should have some mention that it has larger religious activity than the other two, but they are all mostly secular in observance. AlbinoFerret 14:17, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Revisiting questions of scope

Randy Kryn has stated that he rejects the limited consensus reached by Binksternet and Meatsgains and closed by Armbrust in the section #RFC: What is the scope? above. The observance in question is 420 (cannabis culture), which would fall under category 11 of the RfC (Unofficial holidays and celebrations that some Americans observe), along with observances like Ice Cream for Breakfast Day and Geek Pride Day. Is there any interest in reconsidering the RfC, to discuss whether observances like these ought to be included in this template? Ibadibam (talk) 17:43, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Hi. I reject the two-person consensus because, according to it, any listed holiday which does not have official federal or state sanction would be removed from the template, and this would include many religious holidays and others. A very quick selection of some of the holidays not included in the consensus which would be removed if it were relied upon as template policy are Ash Wednesday, Mardi Gras, Groundhog Day, Passover, Palm Sunday, St. Joseph's Day, April Fool's Day, Arbor Day, Earth Day, May Day, Cinco de Mayo, Yom Kippur, General Pulaski Memorial Day, Sweetest Day, and many others. As for Ice Cream for Breakfast Day? Not in the same category, and not to be confused with holidays that millions of people respect in one form or another. There should be a limit, but the limit drawn by the decision in question narrows the scope of the template to such a degree that it loses much of its vitality. Randy Kryn 23:20 16 April, 2015 (UTC)
So you would add all the holidays that "millions" of Americans observe? How many millions is the threshold? Binksternet (talk) 23:53, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
If the template is to continue to contain the items I've just 'bolded' above, along with many others, the above consensus decision we are discussing has to be either ignored or very much improved. Someone's minor holiday may be someone else's yearly celebration, and that occurs with many of the holidays which would be removed if the consensus reached is accepted and acted upon. There should be a limit, yes, with widened criteria. If a holiday is well sourced? If it has reached a point of social acceptance? I don't know, but I don't think Ice Cream for Breakfast Day should make the cut (although maybe dozens of editors would disagree). Subjective in one way, yet with the present restriction of a holiday being officially recognized by federal or state edicts or laws, the items I mention above, and many others, should be removed. If I'm correct about that, and I can't see any other reading of the decision, I'd think you might agree that the consensus question was incomplete, and a new discussion is in order. Randy Kryn 00:17 17 April, 2015 (UTC)
I agree that Ice Cream for Breakfast Day is overkill, but what distinction do you draw between that and 420? Ibadibam (talk) 00:26, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
It's worth noting that many of the observances you've named are still noted by the federal government, and marked by presidential proclamation. Perhaps we need to come to consensus on a definition of "official" before we decide whether it's a good cutoff. Ibadibam (talk) 00:30, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
Bennington Battle Day, which is on the template and is unique to Vermont, in or out? It's in now, and probably more people celebrate 420 Day in Vermont than celebrate Bennington Battle Day (not that there's anything wrong with it). The government list you link to includes some but not all of the items in my exclusion list, but does inclusion on that list officially make them recognized by the federal government, and, if so, is that list the extent of the religious holidays which should be on this template? How about Sweetest Day, or the day after Thanksgiving, both on our list but not the governments? I've put too many question marks in this post? Full disclosure: I've eaten Rice Dream, an ice-cream substitute, for breakfast, and will again! Bottom line, why do holidays have to be officially recognized by governments to be included, maybe some sort of common sense can apply (those that are well sourced and have some weight-of-years, WP:WOY, behind them?). Kind of fun to think about. As for 420, in the current political and social climate it seems well established now and isn't going anywhere, is "celebrated" in large public events around the nation, and will possibly (actually certainly) grow in stature every year from here on in. Likely almost on par with Earth Day in terms of the amount of publicity in newspapers and other sources that it will generate this year and in 2016, or at least a bit more than Bennington Battle Day. Randy Kryn 00:52 17 April, 2015 (UTC)
We want to make sure the navbox is useful, but not exhaustive. We have Public holidays in the United States to provide a comprehensive list, so this template should provide a narrower selection of major official and cultural holidays, ones that are a major part of the public consciousness, and which the average reader would expect to find in a set of major US holidays. I think having an observance listed in a federal publication, even if the government does not mandate a work holiday for that day, is a good indication of broad acceptance by the nation. It seems at least appropriate that any day should be included on which government offices are closed. The Day After Thanksgiving is an official holiday in 24 states and many school districts, so that fits that criterion. Bennington Battle Day is on the list because state offices are closed that day. For major cultural holidays, it's difficult to find an appropriate cutoff. Like Binksternet said above, how many people have to observe a day to make it suitable for inclusion? What source can we use to determine the population celebrating each day? Travel guides, maybe? I agree that Sweetest Day may not belong in this template. Similarly, the cannabis celebration on April 20 is a holiday conceived around the consumption of a particular good, a type of holiday of which there are so many, they're not all included on the list I linked above. (Granted, other major observances are used as occasions to heavily promote consumer spending, but there's a crucial difference in cultural perception of Mothers Day and National Flower Day, despite commercial similarity.) It's easier and more objective to exclude these as a class than try to substantiate the inclusion of each one. Ibadibam (talk) 19:22, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
Hi. I'd suggest that uncontroversial omissions, such as National Flower Day, of course be left off. But for holidays which many sources and editors have an interest in including or excluding, that a sitewide discussion be opened up. Sweetest Day, darn it, seems to have earned a spot (so love, or the closest thing to it, gets two holidays a year, Valentines Day and Sweetest Day, at least without some form of consensus removing it. Maybe the way to go?) For scope of inclusion, I'd again point to the Bennington Battle Day entry (I'm going to have to read that more in-depth now, this conversation makes me want to know more about it (Viva Wikipedia), limiting it to just holidays that a federal or state government is celebrating, or a government official somewhere mentions it in a government publication, seems a bit too government-centric for a holiday template. There are quite a few religious and other "people" holidays which, I would think, deserve a slot or at least a chance at one. Those are quick thoughts on the inclusions and exclusions, on my way from here to there. Thanks for opening an interesting discussion. Randy Kryn 19:54, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
We seem to be more or less of one mind, but what constitutes "many sources and editors"? Which religions get their holidays included, and which holidays of those religious should be included? What concrete criteria make a holiday deserving of inclusion? Ibadibam (talk) 20:24, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
Maybe consensus discussions if a disputed item is added or someone wants one removed as of now? That method would then gradually form some kind of inclusion guidelines (the beforementioned discussion really does leave out all religious and other holidays, yikes). I read the Bennington Battle pages, a very important battle...and the battle was in New York, which isn't even the state that honors it with a paid holiday for state employees! Some Bennington Battle participant descendants get all the luck. Randy Kryn 11:44, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
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