Template talk:Politics of England

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WikiProject England (Rated Template-class)
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WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom (Rated Template-class)
WikiProject icon This template is within the scope of WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Politics of the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
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Image

The vast majority of politics templates use a coat of arms or other official government emblem in their infobox - see for example UK, Scotland, Wales and further afield Afghanistan, Australia, France, Germany, Ireland, the USA and Zimbabwe. Notwithstanding the fact that there is no "English Government" as such, are there any heraldic-style alternatives to the flag of England that would bring the template more into line with the other UK nations and elsewhere? Maybe the Tudor Rose would be appropriate as the traditional heraldic emblem of England? Or perhaps the template should use the arms of HM Government, on the basis that many Whitehall departments are now essentially exercising powers and functions in England only? Pondle (talk) 23:05, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Does the template need an image at all then? The rose, flag, crest, whatever, just seems volatile and decorative, and against the spirit of WP:MOSFLAG anyway. To an outsider, the rose is likely to confuse in my opinion. Not reverting, but just expressing my concern. At least the flag was clearer in that respect. What about a map? --Jza84 |  Talk  23:39, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
I would prefer an image of some sort, if only for consistency with the vast majority of other politics & government templates. Perhaps the arms of HM Government, used at Template:Politics of the United Kingdom, would also be appropriate here? Many UK Government departments - Health, Communities, and DCSF - are now essentially 'English' post-devolution. Pondle (talk) 12:18, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
I agree Pondle. The Royal Arms are used by the major UK departments, and are the traditional English arms for the Realm. Majestica (talk) 19:09, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
I changed the image yesterday to an image of the arms of England, but it was changed back to the UK arms almost immediately. England is not a sovereign state, it is part of a state (the UK) and as such has no real government but a sub-national regional government. I therefore thought it was more appropriate to use the traditional arms of the land rather than the arms of the whole country of which England is a part, even if the arms of England also is part of the arms of the UK. John Anderson (talk) 06:40, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
I understand your reasoning John, and this template does present some rather unique problems. The convention is to use an official government emblem in a national politics template, and of course one does not exist for England since there is no 'English government' as such. The best we could think of was to use the UK Government's version of the royal arms - since in practice, after devolution several UK Government departments - Health, Education, Communities - have become "England only" outfits. Not an ideal solution perhaps, but I don't think that we could agree anything better.Pondle (talk) 17:02, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Coats of arms as opposed to flag

The use of the coats of arms of a country with its "Politics of [country/division name]" template is standardised in Wikipedia: see Politics of India, Politics of the United States, Politics of New York, Politics of Senegal, and so on. --George2001hi (talk) 19:36, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

"Mais oui!" hasn't addressed the point. --George2001hi (talk) 11:57, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Using coats of arms may be the norm for sovereign states but in the case of UK constituent countries, there is no established consensus - a flag is used for wales and now also for Scotland. Northern Ireland uses an ad hoc "politics of northern ireland" iamge. The UK constituent countries do not have individual de jure coats of arms and their flags are long established and well known to the general public. The UK arms are not appropriate as they reptesent the country as a whole, not each individual constituent country. Using flags for England, Scotland and Wales appears to be the best way of having a recognisable and appropriate image for their politics infobox. Dn9ahx (talk) 16:26, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

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