Template talk:Microsoft Windows components

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Put 'em in order

We need to put all the articles listed in alphabetical order! --Titan602 - The mind of darkness 21:12, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Compatibility

Move/Include Print Services for UNIX and COMMAND.COM to the Compatibility group? Ghettoblaster (talk) 14:15, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Not sure. They are not compatibility features per se, but applications that run on top of the compatibility subsystem. In other words, they are the consumers of the compatibility features, not providers of compatibility services. I know I sound vague, but hopefully you get what I meant. --soum talk 16:59, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, COMMAND.COM is still a component of (most) versions of Windows and yes, it runs on top of a compatibility subsystem (NTVDM), but isn't it also some kind of compatibility feature on its own, why else would it still be around now that we have cmd.exe and Windows PowerShell? Ghettoblaster (talk) 17:27, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Windows has cmd.exe despite Windows PowerShell - is that a compatibility feature? Or that it still supports COM despite .NET Framework. Or ODBC and OLE DB in spite of ADO.NET? Or Notepad despite including Wordpad? I am not saying command.com et al should not be in the article. I just feel they shouldn't be in the compatibility section. --soum talk 18:14, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I think you got a point here. So where do we put it in? A new command shell group? Or shall we just put it into the tools group like cmd.exe and Windows PowerShell? This is already a pretty big group don't you think? Ghettoblaster (talk) 18:20, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
How about this? --soum talk 18:38, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
I dont' think this is a good idea. This way it will soon be the the same as Template:Windows commands. Ghettoblaster (talk) 18:48, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
You have a valid point. When I split them out, I was thinking that only the apps that provide their own shell (that provides their own prompt) will be listed here. --soum talk 18:52, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
I wouldn't use the subgroups. Why not just split into administration/management apps (including the CLI shells) and all the other apps like Notepad, IE, Media Player etc. Ghettoblaster (talk) 18:58, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
You mean like this? --soum talk 19:07, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Exactly. Ghettoblaster (talk) 19:09, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Good call. --soum talk 19:15, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Kernel

Move Windows Registry to the Core group? Ghettoblaster (talk) 02:09, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Resmon

how about adding Resource Monitor to the template?


MDOP

Hello, Socrates2008

I have a question about your edit: Which version or edition of Windows contains MDOP?

Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 13:59, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Hello. None - it's a licensed add-on aimed at the enterprise market. Socrates2008 (Talk) 16:13, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
Hi. Excuse me, but if it is not a build-in component of Windows, why do you list it there? Correct me if I am wrong, but looks to me that Microsoft and other companies have released many pieces of independent software that complement Windows for enterprise sector, both freeware and commercial; and MDOP is one of them. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 21:33, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
It's listed for the same reason that the other Microsoft management tools are listed-I didn't set the precedent, just following it. Socrates2008 (Talk) 00:54, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
Hello. I checked the list and it seems all the articles listed there, except MDOP, MDT (Deployment toolkit), IEAK and WAIK, are about Windows components. That makes 27 of them. But not all Microsoft management tools are listed there. For example, none of the System Center products are there. So, it seems the guideline is to include only Windows components, only some contributors didn't exactly adhere to it. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 01:26, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
Right, so here's the problem if you're really keen to fix this template:
  1. The term "components" is vague - does it mean API's, runtimes, (commandline) tools or UI functionality or something else?
  2. The "core" section of the template does not contain core components - for Windows, core means things in the kernel, not the UI, so the definition is entirely wrong.
  3. Some components like Defender, Movie Maker etc. have been included both in the box and available addons via Windows Live. So the distinction is sometimes rather arbitary, and apparently sometimes based on whether a shipping date is met or not. How do you want to treat them?
  4. Similarly runtimes like .Net 4.0 that were addons in earlier versions of Windows, are now included in the box.
  5. Windows PE is a separate OS built on the same kernel, but distributed via WAIK and every retail Windows setup DVD. Does that make it a component?
  6. For enterprises, functionality from the vendor like App-V or IE can be considered part of the core OS, so the distinction about where they came from is arbitary.
So maybe not so simple to call after all... Socrates2008 (Talk) 11:04, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
Hi. I'm converting your list to numbered list so we can discuss it.
  1. Vague? I don't really think so. If it is (or at some point in time, has been) part of the Windows, then it is a Windows component. Quick check: Does Windows Setup install it? Is it possible to enable or disable it via Turn Windows Features On or Off? If either get "yes" as an answer, then it is a component of Windows. Note that some of the things in Windows disc do not get "yes" as answer to these questions.
  2. Yes, I noticed. Only I wasn't sure if I should bring them up. For example, "Shell" is definitely not "core". These two words are antonyms.
  3. We should treat them as with #1. Are they in the box? (i.e. installed with Windows?) Then, they should be here. So, yes, Windows Defender and Movie Maker are Windows components.
  4. Again, as with #1: Are they part of the box? Then, yes, I think we should link to the main article.
  5. Again, as with #1: It is installed by Windows Setup, so it is a component of Windows. It reminds me of Vatican City but analogies are just good for fun.
  6. Item #1 decides this. If they are installed with Windows, then they are components. If they are not, but they are fundamental or infrastructure software, well, they are not components. Lots of companies sell infrastructure or fundamental software. VMware and Parallels are good examples. If you feel bad, just remind yourself of drivers: Nothing is more fundamentally important than third-party drivers, but they are not Windows components. (Windows does come with a bunch of drivers, but we don't need to bother ourselves with them. They usually fall a long distance away from notability.)
So, may it is simple after all.
Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 11:47, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
1) RSAT was part of the Win7 release cycle, but released as hotfix because it missed the cut-off for RTM. It's installable via "Turn Features on or off" once the hotfix is installed.
3) I think you may have missed my point - they have been shipped both out and in the box over time. Windows continues to evolve between major releases.
4) As above - varies by Windows version and point in time.
5) WinPE is Windows setup
6) No, we're talking about Microsoft software here that is designed for Windows. Like when Ms choose to release a new feature via Windows Update Socrates2008 (Talk) 12:45, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
Hi. Okay, let's see.
1. If it is later released as part of a service pack, then it is a Windows component because Microsoft often releases Windows discs with service packs included. No worries.
3. No, I don't think I have missed your point. My answer is the same: Once a Windows component, it is eligible for inclusion.
4. Again, once a Windows component, it can be here.
5. So, what? Isn't Windows Setup part of the box? It sure is. But WinPE is installed by Windows 7 for recovery purpose on local hard disk.
6. My answer is still the same: If it is part of Windows release, including one with Service Pack integrated, then it is a component. Otherwise, no. For example: Internet Explorer is a component but Bing Desktop is not. Both are offered via Windows Update.
Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 16:36, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
1. You're assuming that RSAT was included in a subsequent service pack because the developers were in the Windows team, and chose to use hotfix installer engine.
3. Possibly not. What happens when it's removed (e.g. Move Maker subsequently became part of Windows Live Essentials)
The difficulty you have in trying to classify these items is that you're going to get it wrong repeatedly because it's constantly changing, and because you don't have a view on the company's motiviations or which team in Microsoft developed that particular component. Socrates2008 (Talk) 22:14, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi. Long time, no see? How do you do? Alright, let's see...
1. No, I am not assuming anything; I say "if". If included, then it is a component, if not, then it is not a component.
3. My answer is still the same: Once a Windows component, always a Windows component. Articles about Windows components won't get automatically deleted because the subject is discontinued.
That said, I don't think I have the trouble that you think I have. My opinion has been the same from the beginning: If it is included with Windows, then it is a component. Once a Windows component, always a Windows component. If you seek for a waiver about including article about things other than Windows components or expanding the inclusion criteria of the navbox, we can always discuss it.
Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 00:09, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
The Microsoft salesman who was onsite at my organisation this week was pitching MDOP as an enterprise extension to the Windows operating system. Anyway, feel free to do as you wish with the template as it's not that important an issue to me that I wish to debate any further. Socrates2008 (Talk) 10:58, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi. I am sure he did. By pitching it as an exclusive part or extension to Windows, you are more likely to want to have it. It happen everyday: People purchase packages (say video games or films) containing overpriced exclusive items but never condescend to purchase those items alone.
But when I started editing the template, I try to keep in mind that you liked to include MDOP. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 20:19, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Protected Media Path shouldn't be in Security

Protected Media Path doesn't protect the user from anything; in fact, it's actually detrimental to the user. Should this really be listed under Security? flarn2006 [u t c] time: 22:54, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi. It is not "user security", no; but it is "vendor security". So, yes, it should be in security. Security is always detrimental. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 09:47, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

OneDrive (formerly SkyDrive)

in Windows 8.1 Microsoft added OneDrive as a component of Windows, should this be mentioned? and if so, where? --86.81.201.94 (talk) 10:56, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Announced features

I don't know what the guidelines are concerning announced features as Microsoft Cortana is going to be a component of Microsoft Windows, but as announced versions aren't final versions this could (theoretically) change, ¿so could/should Microsoft Cortana be added today or is it best to wait until the official release of Microsoft Windows 10? Sincerely, --Namlong618 (talk) 09:24, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Windows Photo Viewer and Bing Maps

I noticed that someone moved the Windows Photo Viewer app to "discontinued" personally I wouldn't add it back as it would fall under original research but on my upgraded Windows 7 device Windows Photo Viewer is still present and has not been deleted, if anyone can provide a source to back up the claim that the Windows Photo Viewer isn't supported in new devices I would stop contesting it, also I don't know if I should add it or not but Bing Maps (called Windows Maps in Windows 10) is also bundled now and can't be uninstalled (which are the qualifications of a component as simple bundling doesn't make it a component which is why Xbox Music and Xbox Video weren't listed but Groove Music and Films & TV are), should I add "Windows Maps" (and then redirect it to Bing Maps) to the list? --1.55.1.190 (talk) 07:32, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

I've also noticed that Microsoft OneNote can't be uninstalled in Windows 10 which effectively makes it bundleware and a component, but I'm going to apply original research until I can find a source to back up my findings, but I'm also going to state that the removal of the Windows Photo Viewer is original research until the article will show a link to a statement that can confirm it.
--58.187.228.55 (talk) 01:17, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
It’s also original research, but my computer with some version of Windows 10 Insider Preview (can’t be updated to the newest because of low memory) has Photo Viewer. --Tacsipacsi (talk) 08:48, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
Hi. As I said on another talk page, I myself cannot find Photo Viewer in build 10240, but I have found evidences of possibility (not concrete proof) of this being a mere bug. On the other hand, where Windows 8.1 had two editions of the same app (Calculator, Sound Recorder, Skype, Internet Explorer, OneDrive), Windows 10 has retired one. In case of Calculator and Sound Recorder, the desktop apps got the axe. In case of Skype, Internet Explorer and OneDrive, the Metro-style app got the axe. We should wait a bit and see.
Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 22:20, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

MSN apps?

I've checked on my own PC (yeah yeah I know original research bla bla bla) but I cannot find anywhere that MSN News, MSN Money, MSN Sports and the soon-to-be-discontinued MSN Travel are actually components of Windows 10 (or Windows 8 for that matter) sure they come preinstalled but they can easily be removed which is why Xbox Music and Xbox Video weren't listed before the launch of Windows 10, MSN Weather so far is the only MSN app that is actually a component of Windows 10 as I don't have any reliable sources to back me up I can't revert this edit but the fact remains that only MSN Weather is "a true component" otherwise we'll have to add the Microsoft Solitaire Collection applications back to because they now come preinstalled again (though they could all be removed). --Hoang the Hoangest (talk) 07:37, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Hello, Hoang the Hoangest
Please note that I wrote "MSN apps" with small "a", not "MSN Apps"! I am not claiming there is such a proper name as "MSN Apps". Rather, I invoked an English language construct called noun adjunct; i.e. I wrote apps from MSN or app pertaining MSN. That's what the article to which they are linked claims. This is a navbox, so we just reflect the article contents.
Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 08:14, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
Codename Lisa I didn't state anything about the grammar as I'm from Vietnam and honestly I don't know much English beyond what I learned when I was 13, oh I see what you mean now as MSN Weather as a standalone application is a redirect to only a section of the article in question so it would be better to list them all? I'd remove Travel as it's no longer included in Windows 10 and has been announced for discontinuation (well the application the MSN service will remain). --Hoang the Hoangest (talk) 08:24, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
The discontinuation does not matter much. Navboxes are not means of reflecting the latest status; they just guide people to readable material. And there is still readable material in MSN article about the Travel app.
Now that I am clear about the grammar point, I can tell you for sure that they cannot be truly uninstalled. They are simply unregistered. They can be re-added back with a simple Add-AppxPackage command from Windows PowerShell with no administrative privileges, no Internet connection and no Windows disc. Or, if you create a new user account and log on with it, they are there for that user. In fact, starting with Windows Vista, nothing can be truly removed from Windows. It remains in the servicing store. If you are interested, please see [1], [2], [3] and the linked material in TechNet.
Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 08:57, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
I understand now, should MSN Health & Fitness and MSN Food & Drink be added too as they were added in Windows 8.1? --Hoang the Hoangest (talk) 09:01, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
They are appropriate. However, I was chatting online with another Wikipedian, User:FleetCommand. (He and I sometimes do.) He suggests that for the sake of brevity, we should include only the name three of the app and add an "etc." at the end. What do you think? Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 09:14, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
Codename Lisa that would open the question up, which three apps? the oldest apps (News, Money, Weather, Etc.)? alphabetically (Food & Drink, Health & Fitness, Money, Etc.)? or based on the ones that recently are bundled (Weather, News, Money, Etc.)? I don't necessarily disagree with it, only it could arouse conflict. --Hoang the Hoangest (talk) 10:27, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
"News, money, whether" satisfies two of your criteria, so I'd go with that one. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 08:06, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Windows Photo Viewer is still in Windows 10.

According to this article it's still present, only it's "hidden". Though other apps like Windows Easy Transfer has been discontinued. --Hoang the Hoangest (talk) 06:05, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Changes that are contested as factually inaccurate

Hello.

Onecatowner and FleetCommand, you two appear to be in a dispute. It appears Onecatowner has made changes FleetCommand considered incorrect. Please tell us what is the problem with the current state of the template and what changes do you propose. Then, we will discuss them and if approved, edit the template.

Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 08:12, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

Hey.
Here's a list of bad changes:
  1. Windows Photo Gallery is brought out of "discontinued" list. In reality, the only time it was included in Windows was in Windows Vista. Its successor, Windows Live Photo Gallery was never bundled with Windows but it is also discontinued. I have seen Onecatowner citing sources to the effect that WLPG still works on Windows 10 but that doesn't mean "not discontinued". Because no development goes into this piece of software anymore, it is discontinued.
  2. Windows Photo Viewer is moved to discontinued. In reality, according to the source provided in its article, it is still available in Windows 10, only it is hidden. But we can have a compromise on this one or an RFC rather.
  3. FreeCell, Solitaire and Spider Solitaire are brought out of discontinued section. In reality, they are no longer included in Windows 8, 8.1 or 10. Windows 10 has Microsoft Solitaire Collection instead.
  4. Mahjong, Hover, and Minesweeper are brought out of the discontinued section. In reality, they are no longer bundled with Windows. One must procure a replacement from Windows Store. These replacements are no longer a "component".
  5. Windows Live Writer and Windows Live Mail are added to the navbox. They have never been bundled with any version of Windows. One had to download them separately. As such, they were never "components".
Windows Journal was also moved to the discontinued section, but I think we can safely reinstate that change.
FleetCommand (Speak your mind!) 07:49, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Ok, that makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. The games are largely the same as before, but are no longer "components", so if that is the criteria it works. I have a follow-up question about Windows Movie Maker: Since it is bundled with Vista and Photo Gallery, should it also be moved to the discontinued list?
Onecatowner (talk) 17:02, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
I think so. First, mainly because no more development goes into it. —Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 18:51, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
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