Template talk:Donald Trump series

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Proposal to remove the list of entities under Trump Organization

I'm proposing that the below listings be removed. Since this is a presidential template, I believe that including a full list of Trump-affiliated commercial entities is indiscriminate and non-neutral. The template cross-links all Trump presidency-related articles to his commercial venues; I don't believe its appropriate.

The proposal would keep "Trump Organization" link; if ppl are interested in learning more, they could follow the links from the Org article. I would appreciate feedback on this proposal.

I'm proposing that the following links be removed from the template:

New York properties
Hotels
*Chicago
*Honolulu
*Las Vegas
New York
Palm Beach (Mar-a-Lago)
Washington
Baku
Panama
Vancouver
Name licensing
Trump Palace
Trump Place
Trump Plaza
Trump Tower
Former notable properties
GM Building
Grand Hyatt
Plaza Hotel
The Adelaide Hotel Toronto

Golf courses |

United States
Bedminster
Ferry Point
Pine Hill
Westchester
Los Angeles
Miami "Doral"
Palm Beach
Washington
Europe
Doonbeg
Turnberry

Other ventures |

Current
Trump Home
Trump Productions
Trump Winery
Former
Casinos
Miss Universe
Trump Foundation
Trump Models
Trump University
Miscellaneous

K.e.coffman (talk) 21:58, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Discussion on Trump Organization entities

  • Support full removal of details, keeping only one link to The Trump Organization and moving it into the "Business and personal background" section. — JFG talk 22:14, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
  • Since there's been no objections, I've implemented the change. Additionally, I moved The Trump Org under "Business and personal", as suggested above. It seemed like a natural fit. K.e.coffman (talk) 23:03, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
  • @JLo-Watson: Regarding this revert, please see discussion above. Please let me know if you have concerns about this change. K.e.coffman (talk) 01:33, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Which other sections should be hidden?

There has been some recent back-and-forth reshuffling sections and hiding or showing their contents by default. The Trump Organization section has always been hidden, and there is an ongoing discussion to suppress it entirely. The Books section was hidden when it grew rather large because all of Trump's books were included. The Russia section was hidden per RfC outcome. The election section was hidden because its contents are now less timely than the rest. Which of the remaining "visible" sections should be hidden and why? — JFG talk 23:05, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

  • Do not hide anything else: keep "Presidency", "Appointments", "Policy positions", "International trips" and "Business and personal" as they are. — JFG talk 23:06, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
  • Hide international trips. Neutralitytalk 04:44, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
Does anyone object to hiding/grouping the "international trips" section? If not, I'll make this change in 5 days' time. Neutralitytalk 23:47, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Support hiding international trips. K.e.coffman (talk) 02:16, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Donald Trump sexual misconduct affair

The article on the Donald Trump sexual misconduct affair doesn't belong under the election. The affair started, and was publicly well known, years before the election even started, dating back to the 1980s, notably including his first wife accusing him of sexual assault. There is also no evidence at all to suggest that the affair has somehow "ended". One could argue that it is, to some extent, overshadowed by the numerous other crimes and scandals in the last few months, related to collusion with Russia, obstruction of justice, war on the free press, racist/far-right extremist policies targeting Muslims and other minorities, ties to the neo-Nazi Breibart publication, promotion of climate change denial, general chaos and incompetence in the WH, etc. etc., but it hasn't ended, and it belongs more naturally under Trump's personal life (and specifically legal affairs) in this template, than under the election. --Tataral (talk) 16:30, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

Those allegations came to light in the last few weeks of the presidential campaign, and they vanished just after the election, so yes they are intimately related to Trump's campaign, in the all-American tradition of digging dirt on every candidate for public office. There is some renewed talk about those stories this week because of the Weinstein scandal, but that doesn't change the facts: only one of these women ever filed a complaint against Trump; that was in 1997 about a 1992 incident, and she was happily doing Trump's makeup on a rally in 2015. Actually, another "Jane Doe" sued anonymously but backed away when people started requesting more than innuendo from her lawyers. The only lasting legacy of this episode will surely be adding a new expression to the English lexicon: "grab'em by the pussy". Ain't politics fun?[FBDB]JFG talk 22:41, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

Summits

In the section about international trips, I removed the recently-added Three Seas Initiative summit, saying "No notable activity at the Three Seas Initiative summit; US is not a member, Trump was just a guest", which AlaskanNativeRU restored with comment "Trump was also just a guest in the Riyadh summit, but it is still listed. And it was very notable." Well, Trump was not "just a guest" in Riyadh: the whole summit was dedicated to relations between the US Middle-Eastern and African countries, and it revolved largely around Trump. He gave a landmark speech to 50+ heads of state, whereas the remarks he gave in Warsaw were not connected to the Three Seas Initiative at all. For those reasons, I don't think this summit should be mentioned. Further opinions welcome. — JFG talk 23:00, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

The three seas summit was also headquartered in Poland, where he spoke to 30 heads of states, or somewhere around there too. That is on top of the other speach he gave in Poland, which wasn't part of 3seas. AlaskanNativeRU (talk) 00:59, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
I must have missed his speech to 30 heads of state; how can that be when the Three Seas Initiative has only 12 members? Aren't you referring to the 2017 G20 Hamburg summit which took place the next day? — JFG talk 02:52, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
So I guess it was 12 heads of states, notice how I wrote 'somewhere around there'. I brought that up because you brought up that he spoke to many heads of state at the Riyah summit, but didn't mention it about the 3 seas. It's still very notable and important. AlaskanNativeRU (talk) 03:25, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
The Three Seas Initiative is certainly a notable and important event; my angle is rather that Trump's role in there was anecdotal at best. Do you have any sources talking about his remarks at this summit specifically? The only article cited in Timeline of the Trump presidency, 2017 Q3 points to a dead page in The Economic Times, an Indian newspaper. Surely if that speech was remotely as notable as his other interventions, we would have seen numerous reports in European and US press. The Three Seas article itself only mentions Trump in the context of his planned attendance ([1][2][3]); there is nothing about his actual presence or what he said. Unless significant coverage exists, this remains UNDUE for the Trump sidebar, which is meant to be a curated collection of the most significant articles about Trump among hundreds. — JFG talk 04:13, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
Off the top of my memory it was on the whitehouse's youtube channel and he tweeted a lot about it. It was also pretty interesting because his wife- Melina , the first lady's country was represented in the summit. Just googling the event comes up with a lot of news sources like the times [4] , reuters [5] , [6] [7] , a state department tweet [8]. I think he also made a pretty big announcement about supplying oil in the regions. AlaskanNativeRU (talk) 04:48, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the links; most are transcripts or other primary sources, we need secondary sources reporting on the event to show significance. Trump's remarks at Three Seas are a minor speech with regard to his presidency so far. He made an outdoor speech in Warsaw that attracted some significant coverage but that one was totally unrelated to the Three Seas Initiative. Trump's name is barely mentioned in the Three Seas article. For all those reasons I would still remove this event from the sidebar (we have 800 articles about Trump, must be selective). His wife's name is spelled Melania btw. Face-smile.svgJFG talk 17:15, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
Yes thank you for that, it is *Melania. Here are some secondary sources reporting it too, which I was actually able to find many just by simply googling it. This one is more international [9] [10] and imagine all the one's that are written in other languages by all the countries in the regions, then we have our traditional msm of course [11] [12], I feel overall this is a very noteworthy add-on. Let's see what other editors think. AlaskanNativeRU (talk) 20:42, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Comment -- the linked article, Three Seas Initiative, has this to say about Trump's role: "The initiative's second summit was held 6–7 July 2017 in Warsaw. US President Donald Trump attended the summit." The inclusion of this article is undue in this template, and I suggest it be removed. K.e.coffman (talk) 00:46, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Picture consensus

We have long-standing consensus to use a different picture here than on the main Trump bio. In my opinion, the recent release of an official White House portrait does not invalidate this consensus, so that I have reverted to the Skidmore portrait for now. What do my fellow editors think: should we keep the long-standing picture or switch to the White House portrait? — JFG talk 23:18, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Personally, I think we need to update the image whether it be the official presidential portrait or a 2017 HQ photo of him. I'm not a fan of the current image. Corky Buzz by the Hornet's Nest 06:45, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
I might favor using the image that was atop the main BLP until last week. It shows him as president, whereas the pic we’re using here now is older. But I think we need a gallery of options here. Anythingyouwant (talk) 19:11, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

These are the main portraits of Trump that I found on Wikimedia Commons:

Which one do you prefer?

Personally, I prefer B, but if we want use a different portrait for this template, I will vote C. -- Nick.mon (talk) 17:48, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

  • I prefer B, with C as my second option. The others are just poor quality or are not facing the camera directly. Corky Buzz by the Hornet's Nest 18:16, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
  B is arguably the best choice, best picture quality of all of them. I also suggest this matter be closed and a decision made if no one has an objection. 2A02:2F0B:B0FF:FFFF:0:0:BC19:5099 (talk) 08:42, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
  • B, by a country mile.- MrX 18:39, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
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