Talk:List of Confederate monuments and memorials

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Shortening article by removing Former material

I have started to remove the Former sections and replace them with links to sections of Removal artival at beginning. I am checking that everything deleted is in the Removal article.

It serves no purpose to include the same information two different places, which means double editing. And in fact not everything in Removal section is here under Former, which can mislead readers.

I have done this so far with Arkansas and California. As time permits I will go on through the alphabet. deisenbe (talk) 13:02, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

  • Florida and Georgia merges completed. Different details and references in the two former Florida versions. deisenbe (talk)
  • Completed through Kansas deisenbe (talk) 00:12, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
We had a discussion about this in the past. I had removed the former sections, and @Malik Shabazz: was particularly adamant that it constituted a POV fork. So I put them back. You participated in that discussion, Deisenbe, so it's a little odd that you're bringing it up again without reference to the previous discussion. Fluous (talk) 03:55, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
Congratulations, you have a better memory than me. Bear in mind a year has gone by and other monuments have now been removed. Maintaining the same information in two different places at best is a timewaster. To have different information, including at times different references, on the same monument in two different places is flat out wrong. So I’m doing what I need to do to fix the situation. No one else is doing anything. I will keep doing this until someone starts undoing my work or convinces me - now, not a year ago - that I’m making things worse instead of better. deisenbe (talk) 10:37, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
  • Completed through Mississippi deisenbe (talk) 14:40, 27 September 2018 (UTC) Through North Carolina. deisenbe (talk) 11:51, 9 October 2018 (UTC). Through Tennessee. deisenbe (talk) 13:33, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

Painting missing

In the Georgia section, a missing painting is listed. How is a missing painting a monument or memorial to the Confederacy? Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 04:03, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Is your point that it shouldn’t be there because it’s a commemoration by omission than by commission, or that it isn’t relevant to the Confederacy?
I'm the one who put it in. I found working on the monuments in the Georgis capitol: a fascinating but little-known bit of trivia. (A similar item accidentally discovered is the former Texas Confederate Museum.) My criteria always is, is it helping or hurting the reader seeking information on the topic? At the time I couldn’t think of a better place for it. The article on the Georgia State Capitol doesn’t talk about any monuments at all. But I’ll move it over to the Removal article, which is about things not there. deisenbe (talk) 10:53, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
I just don't see how something that isn't there is a "monument or memorial" to the Confederacy. It would make sense in an article about the state capitol. Since that is the only painting missing, how do you explain the fact that the paintings of two governors who where not duly elected ARE there? James Johnson was appointed by President Johnson in 1865 and US Army General Thomas Ruger was appointed in 1868 by General Meade, when the US Army still occupied Georgia. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 16:26, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
Scratch that last part. The article says that every governor elected since 1850 has their portrait there, so I don't know about the unelected ones. (At least some of the ones before 1850 must be missing too.) Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 16:38, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
I put it where it belongs, in Georgia State Capitol. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 16:46, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

United Confederate Veterans Memorial

I created United Confederate Veterans Memorial, so the Washington State section should probably be trimmed. ---Another Believer (Talk) 12:20, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

Ways to possibly shorten article

Obviously, this article is way too long, but we've failed to come to a consensus about how to split this up. Therefore, I propose 2 ways to reduce the overall size:

  1. For monuments and memorials with their own Wikipedia articles, we should remove descriptions
  2. For monuments and memorials with their own Wikipedia articles, we should remove inline citations

We're approaching 1,000 inline citations, so removing those for topics with their own articles is one way to reduce the References section without taking away too much from the encyclopedia, since readers can simply click on the monument/memorial link for more information. Same with descriptions -- no need to go into detail about memorials with their own articles. Let's leave the descriptions and citations for memorials without articles of their own. Thoughts? ---Another Believer (Talk) 22:18, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

I don't see a problem with 1000 cites or discriptions. If we really want to shorten the page I suggest spinning out the states with the longest lists as seperate pages. Put "Main: List of Confederate monummets and memorials in State X" and a couple lines that summarize the material. Like there are 15 schools, 57 statutues and three roads in State X. °Legacypac (talk) 16:48, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
I’m the only one who has actually done anything about shortening, by removing, not without some resistance, the material on former monuments, moving it over to the Removal article.
It’s not clear to me just what the problem is. It’s “way too long”? Says who? Where is the line between “long”, “too long”, and “way too long”? And what is the problem that its length presents? That it takes too long to load or save? That we have to be thinking of those with slow Internet connections? That it’s too big a load on the servers?
If you remove material for monuments that have their own article, then this article will in consequence be full primarily of information about the less important monuments. I don’t think that would leave a good article.
If it has to be shortened, then I’d be in favor of splitting it into states. But I don’t have a problem with it as it is. deisenbe (talk) 19:24, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
I am also fine with how it is, but if enough editors insist on shortening then I suggest spinning out larger states, but not all states. Washington State for example does not need its own page. Legacypac (talk) 19:29, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
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