MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist

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Mediawiki:Spam-blacklist is meant to be used by the spam blacklist extension. Unlike the meta spam blacklist, this blacklist affects pages on the English Wikipedia only. Any administrator may edit the spam blacklist. See Wikipedia:Spam blacklist for more information about the spam blacklist.


Instructions for editors

There are 4 sections for posting comments below. Please make comments in the appropriate section. These links take you to the appropriate section:

  1. Proposed additions
  2. Proposed removals
  3. Troubleshooting and problems
  4. Discussion

Each section has a message box with instructions. In addition, please sign your posts with ~~~~ after your comment.

Completed requests are archived. All additions and removals are also logged.


Instructions for admins

Any admin unfamiliar with this page should probably read this first, thanks.
If in doubt, please leave a request and a spam-knowledgeable admin will follow-up.

  1. Does the site have any validity to the project?
  2. Have links been placed after warnings/blocks? Have other methods of control been exhausted? Would referring this to our anti-spam bot, XLinkBot be a more appropriate step? Is there a WikiProject Spam report? If so, a permanent link would be helpful.
  3. Please ensure all links have been removed from articles and discussion pages before blacklisting. (They do not have to be removed from user or user talk pages).
  4. Make the entry at the bottom of the list (before the last line). Please do not do this unless you are familiar with regex — the disruption that can be caused is substantial.
  5. Close the request entry on here using either {{done}} or {{not done}} as appropriate. The request should be left open for a week maybe as there will often be further related sites or an appeal in that time.
  6. Log the entry. Warning: if you do not log any entry you make on the blacklist, it may well be removed if someone appeals and no valid reasons can be found. To log the entry, you will need this number - 786974079 after you have closed the request. See here for more info on logging.
snippet for logging: {{/request|786974079#section_name}}
snippet for logging of WikiProject Spam items: {{WPSPAM|786974079#section_name}}

Proposed additions

allindiaitr.com

allindiaitr.com: Linksearch en (https) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:frMER-C X-wiki • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Wikipedia: en - fr - de • Google: searchmeta • Domain: domaintoolsAboutUs.orgDomainsDB.netAlexaWhosOnMyServer.com

Link being spammed to Goods and Services Tax (India), Income tax return (India) and Tax Deducted at Source. Ravensfire (talk) 19:09, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

@Ravensfire: plus Added to MediaWiki:Spam-blacklist. --Dirk Beetstra T C 06:41, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
Thanks! Ravensfire (talk) 12:02, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
@Beetstra:, my apologies, but I typo'd the domain name. It's allindiaitr.com (note the i before the tr). Just typed in the address rather than copy paste and my aging eyes missed that one little character. I checked the past contributions and it's always been itr, not just tr. Would you mind updating the blacklist? Sorry for the goof. Ravensfire (talk) 17:57, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
@Ravensfire: how a something small can make a difference. plus Added to MediaWiki:Spam-blacklist. --Dirk Beetstra T C 20:58, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

found it necessary to blank this report twice (diff, diff). --Dirk Beetstra T C 12:29, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

I love it when spammers throw a temper tantrum! Ravensfire (talk) 12:43, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

uonbi.ac.ke

uonbi.ac.ke: Linksearch en (https) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:frMER-C X-wiki • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Wikipedia: en - fr - de • Google: searchmeta • Domain: domaintoolsAboutUs.orgDomainsDB.netAlexaWhosOnMyServer.com

  • Spamming by a vast number of single-purpose accounts over the past few days, e.g.:[[1]], [[2]], [[3]], [[4]], [[5]], [[6]], [[7]]. I know it's the website of a reputable unviversity, but the current level of spamming is unsustainable. See in particular University of Nairobi, where multiple external links have recently been added indiscriminately. . . Mean as custard (talk) 08:53, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
@Mean as custard: I will revertlist this for now, but am indeed tempted to blacklist this and let the whitelist handle what needs to be handled. plus Added to User:XLinkBot/RevertList. --Dirk Beetstra T C 10:10, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

chronoleaks.com

  • chronoleaks.com: Linksearch en (https) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:frMER-C X-wiki • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Wikipedia: en - fr - de • Google: searchmeta • Domain: domaintoolsAboutUs.orgDomainsDB.netAlexaWhosOnMyServer.com

Refspam, dead-link replacement spam (does not even seem to be related to what they try to replace). --Dirk Beetstra T C 06:03, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

@Beetstra: plus Added to MediaWiki:Spam-blacklist. --Dirk Beetstra T C 06:03, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

my-free.website

my-free.website: Linksearch en (https) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:frMER-C X-wiki • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Wikipedia: en - fr - de • Google: searchmeta • Domain: domaintoolsAboutUs.orgDomainsDB.netAlexaWhosOnMyServer.com

  • This has recently flared up across a number of Indian actor biographies, for instance from Sri Lankan IP 175.157.106.11. I'm not sure what the best approach is here, though. It's unlikely that this free web host will ever be the source of reliable content, but I do see how some editors might want to link to their free website on their user page, so would a full blacklist be appropriate? An alternative, might be to blacklist the individual pages:
tamilcinema.my-free.website
keerthysuresh.my-free.website
mafazgalle.blogspot.com (Different site, I know. Added here)
And so forth as necessary. Thoughts? Cyphoidbomb (talk) 14:23, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

icdst.org and dl.icdst.org

  • icdst.org: Linksearch en (https) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:frMER-C X-wiki • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Wikipedia: en - fr - de • Google: searchmeta • Domain: domaintoolsAboutUs.orgDomainsDB.netAlexaWhosOnMyServer.com
  • dl.icdst.org: Linksearch en (https) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:frMER-C X-wiki • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Wikipedia: en - fr - de • Google: searchmeta • Domain: domaintoolsAboutUs.orgDomainsDB.netAlexaWhosOnMyServer.com

blatant spamming by IPs (I don't know if the two need to be listed separately or not. Below are the instances of the spamming that were still showing in the link-finder tool when I started posting this. All cleaned now.

All of the IPs are in Iran. The ICDST is in Iran, per this. -- Jytdog (talk) 17:41, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

Proposed removals


econlib.com

  • econlib.com: Linksearch en (https) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:frMER-C X-wiki • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Wikipedia: en - fr - de • Google: searchmeta • Domain: domaintoolsAboutUs.orgDomainsDB.netAlexaWhosOnMyServer.com

Where is the argument for blacklisting? The only reason tentatively given for blacklisting is the site *might* have been spammed to drive traffic. See recent discussion at MediaWiki_talk:Spam-blacklist/archives/May_2017#econlib.org. Especially the Concise Encyclopedia of Economics part of the site should be unbanned as it contains original copyrighted material by a reasonably wide range of notable economists.Jonpatterns (talk) 16:44, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

This needs attention. The admin who blocked this site has desysopped himself and is on a Wiki break. He has not responded to requests to deal with this. JzG admitted that part of the ban had to do with the Libertarian affiliation of the source. This is a serious breach of Wikipedia's neutrality position. My personal views are basically the opposite of those represented by Econlib, but sources shouldn't be banned based on the leanings of the site that hosts them. I've found the CEE to be a reliable source with articles by well-known economists of all stripes. JzG has not provided much evidence that this ban is needed to prevent SEO. His edits stripped all references to sites on econlib regardless of whether they were placed there by editors engaged in alleged SEO.--Bkwillwm (talk) 02:47, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
And I pleaded to remove the blacklisting. Econlib is provided by a highly regarded think tank Liberty Fund (rated 75 (of 150) in the UPenn listing of Best Independent Think Tanks world-wide) and it posts original material from noted economists, including Nobel Prize Laureates. – S. Rich (talk) 21:23, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
Then they shouldn't have needed to spam, should they? --Calton | Talk 00:57, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
Incorrect. And your loaded question does not WP:AGF. The links to econlib provide useful and relevant information to the readers. WP:Spam is the content guideline, and it does not mention blacklisting as a remedy. The behavior guideline WP:Spam requires less drastic measures. Indeed, compelling evidence is required before adding links to the blacklist. None of the less drastic steps were taken by the former sysop (who stated he was part of the rouge admin cabal) before blacklisting econlib. The alleged spammers were not blocked, let alone warned. The blacklisting was the just one of a series of irresponsible steps driven by POV. – S. Rich (talk) 03:34, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Irrespective of the alleged or actual motives behind the blacklisting, is a link to this website needed? The previous discussion implies that the links to this website were redundant to others that don't raise any spam issues. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 15:25, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

Yes, that was the main issue, that there was nothing sourced to the spamming website that could not be sourced elsewhere. Many of the econlib links are to public domain books which can easily found elsewhere, i.e. WikiSource. If there are genuine links in there somewhere, they could always be whitelisted, but I don't see much. Black Kite (talk) 15:38, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
You are mistaken. Econlib has unique, original material, not just books. For example, here is an essay from Noble Prize Laureate George J. Stigler
[http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Monopoly.html Monopoly]. This piece, one of many, is not available anywhere else. Also, it is wrong to conflate the actions by a limited number of editors (the evil spammers) to the econlib website itself. E.g., the website cannot spam itself. Whitelisting is not a solution. Why? Look at the fact that this discussion has gone on and on over two different threads without result – which admins will be available to "bless" a whitelist request? Also, putting up the barrier of "Ask for a whitelisting for such-and-such link." is contrary to the notion that WP is a resource that anyone can edit. But, rather than simply complaining about the "blacklisting" here, I will resolve the issue with links to freely available books. A wiki-search for "econlib" comes up with 51 entries. I'm now going through them to remove those links to books. – S. Rich (talk) 17:42, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
Okay. I've gone through the list and removed those links which simply went to book titles. I believe each of the 19 remaining articles has a full citation to original articles. Most of them are to the Concise Encyclopedia of Economics and they provide (usually biographical) reference material to the particular article subjects. So the beef about econlib being used to "spam" links to books that are available via Google and Amazon and WikiSource is resolved. But 2–3 of the 19 articles have links which are blocked by the black list. These are NOT links to works which are available elsewhere. And the example link to Stigler remains blocked. I think I've done my share, it is time to fix this. – S. Rich (talk) 23:41, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

Here is a listing of the notable economists who contributed to the first edition (1993) of the CEE (see: http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc1/CEEAuthors.html). Because of the "blacklist" it is impossible to link the particular articles which they wrote for either the first or second editions.

Armen Alchian, Jodie Allen, William Baumol, Gary Becker (Nobel Prize), Jagdish Bhagwati, Alan Blinder, Walter Block, George J. Borjas, Mark Casson, Tyler Cowen, Robert Crandall, Clive Crook, Patricia Danzon, Avinash Dixit, Barry Nalebuff, Barry Eichengreen, Robert Eisner, David D. Friedman, George Gilder, Thomas W. Gilligan, Claudia Goldin, Marshall Goldman, John C. Goodman, Arnold Harberger, Garrett Hardin, Thomas Hazlett, Robert Heilbroner, David R. Henderson, Daniel Henninger, Robert Hessen, Paul Heyne, Jack Hirshleifer, Kevin Hoover, Manuel H. Johnson, Alfred E. Kahn, Wolfgang Kasper, Robert King (economist), Laurence Kotlikoff, Paul Krugman (Nobel Prize), Robert Z. Lawrence, Stanley Lebergott, N. Gregory Mankiw, Allan H. Meltzer, Gregory Millman, Geoffrey H. Moore, Barry Nalebuff, William A. Niskanen, Madsen Pirie, David Prychitko, Alan Reynolds, Kenneth Rogoff, Christina Romer, Paul Romer, Murray Rothbard, Robert J. Samuelson, Thomas J. Sargent, Isabel Sawhill, Thomas Schelling (Nobel Prize), Anna Schwartz, Jane S. Shaw, Herbert Stein, George Stigler (Nobel Prize), Joseph Stiglitz, Lawrence Summers, Lester Thurow, James Tobin (Nobel Prize), Robert Tollison, Gordon Tullock, W. Kip Viscusi, E. Roy Weintraub, Lawrence H. White, Aaron Wildavsky, Richard Zeckhauser.

The first edition is available on-line. Some print editions are still available, but difficult to find. – S. Rich (talk) 17:16, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

  • As far as I can see, the whole of the CEE is copyrighted. See, for example, [8] (replace the $ with an e). Therefore, to use econlib, any quotations from it would have to comply with our non-free policies. This would not be the case if quoting directly from the book. Therefore, anyone using the content should be using the book as the source, not the website. Black Kite (talk) 17:45, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
Two points. Their copyright is not a justification for blacklisting. (Use of copyrighted material in WP is of concern whether the material is in print on or online.) But more importantly, econlib says "You may quote selections from the page or print a personal copy, in accordance with Fair Use under U.S. copyright laws." (See: http://www.econlib.org/cgi-bin/copyright.pl.) Because their output is online, the term "page" refers to their webpages. – S. Rich (talk) 19:13, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
Yes, that's what I just said. Anything from the CEE should be quoted as (cite book) with the original book page. If you quote econlib, you are increasing the amount of non-free material; you should be minimising this, per WP:5P. This is not a difficult concept, all we need is an editor with a copy of the book. Black Kite (talk) 19:32, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
I fail to understand the point, or how it might justify the blacklisting. Copyrights protect material that is on-line and in-print. Indeed, we use material from purely web-based sources all of the time. The key term is "Fair use", and Econlib has granted permission to "quote selections...." If there were problems with using Econlib material the place to solve them is WP:CP in accordance with WP:CV. – S. Rich (talk) 19:44, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
Well, I don't think it's anything to do with the original reason for the blacklisting, but it is a good reason not to use econlib for this particular publication. We are supposed to minimise non-free content whether it's "fair use" or not. If we are pointing people towards a non-free source (econlib) rather than the original source then we're not doing that. Free content should be hosted at Wikisource; this isn't free content, so we shouldn't be advertising a website that is using copyrighted content for free. Black Kite (talk) 21:06, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
By your logic virtually everything WP uses as a source would be eliminated. The NYT, WP, MSNBC, FOX, etc copyright everything they put out. That does not mean we can't use portions of the material. Nor would we blacklist these sources. WP:NFCCP has 10 criteria by which we make editing judgments about what to add. I think, and would ensure, that all 10 criteria would be met by responsible editing in accordance with NFCCP when applying fair use the the CEE sources. Besides, NFCCP is not a factor to consider when blacklisting. NFCCP has an important Rationale: we can use non-free content "To facilitate the judicious use of non-free content to support the development of a high-quality encyclopedia." We are not "advertising" CEE. And consider what happens when we use Special Booksources with ISBNs. We get links to Google, Amazon, and a whole lot more. – S. Rich (talk) 22:49, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
No, you're missing the point. Yes, news services copyright what they put out, but they're primary sources. We quote directly from them. Here, the copyrighted primary source is being hosted by another website on a "fair-use" basis - so not only is it non-free, but we're directly advertising econlib, which I suspect was the whole point in the first place, and why it ended up on the spam blacklist. Black Kite (talk) 07:28, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

sellmycar.com

  • sellmycar.com: Linksearch en (https) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:frMER-C X-wiki • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Wikipedia: en - fr - de • Google: searchmeta • Domain: domaintoolsAboutUs.orgDomainsDB.netAlexaWhosOnMyServer.com
  • sellmycar.com.au: Linksearch en (https) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:frMER-C X-wiki • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Wikipedia: en - fr - de • Google: searchmeta • Domain: domaintoolsAboutUs.orgDomainsDB.netAlexaWhosOnMyServer.com

Sellmycar.com and sellmycar.com.au are two different websites and have nothing to do with each other. Not too sure on how do we have sellmycar.com.au out of this blacklist --Jimmy.karumalil (talk) 05:27, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

@Jimmy.karumalil: I'll have a look, but the rules that normally would block sellmycar.com would also block sellmycar.com.au. --Dirk Beetstra T C 06:11, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

@Beetstra: Thank you! --Jimmy.karumalil (talk) 06:14, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

I expect you wanted to add that to this edit. That is very promotional, and you have been warned against promotional language before. Although the rule is meant for sellmycar.com and not for sellmycar.com.au, seen the way you seem to have intended to add it there it is rightfully blocked. Please stop your promotional edits on Wikipedia. --Dirk Beetstra T C 10:51, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

@Beetstra: No worries! So, if I were to create an organisational wiki for Sell My Car, would I not be able to create one? --Jimmy.karumalil (talk) 03:56, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

@Jimmy.karumalil: Yes, you could, but you can't include this link at the moment. You would have to request whitelisting (hence: Defer to Whitelist) for the specific links to be used, in this case typically an 'about' page on your site or similar. Try creating it in draft space (see WP:AFC) , and have an independent editor review it for you (if it moves to mainspace then the link can be whitelisted, we typically do not whitelist for draftspace). --Dirk Beetstra T C 07:21, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

@Beetstra: Thank you very much! --Jimmy.karumalil (talk) 08:53, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

docs.onion.io

  • docs.onion.io: Linksearch en (https) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:frMER-C X-wiki • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Wikipedia: en - fr - de • Google: searchmeta • Domain: domaintoolsAboutUs.orgDomainsDB.netAlexaWhosOnMyServer.com
  • onion.io: Linksearch en (https) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:frMER-C X-wiki • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Wikipedia: en - fr - de • Google: searchmeta • Domain: domaintoolsAboutUs.orgDomainsDB.netAlexaWhosOnMyServer.com

This one is blocked because global blacklist for "docs.onion" exists, which designates to some site behind TOR network. But the website docs.onion.io and it's parent onion.io are not on the TOR network, it's a home website for computing hardware Omega2. Please fix this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NStorm (talkcontribs)

@NStorm:  Declined, Defer to Whitelist for this domain. --Dirk Beetstra T C 16:43, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

yourstory.com

  • yourstory.com: Linksearch en (https) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:frMER-C X-wiki • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Wikipedia: en - fr - de • Google: searchmeta • Domain: domaintoolsAboutUs.orgDomainsDB.netAlexaWhosOnMyServer.com

Our business/ startup incubator is based in Mumbai & the media publication company YourStory is the best & the most reliable source for startup stories & mentions and that is the major references for our incubated startups & many other that we will be associated in the future.

so I propose to remove yourstory.com from the spamlist Pratibhajeyaraj
@Pratibhajeyaraj:  Declined, see WP:SPAM/WP:NOTSOAPBOX. --Dirk Beetstra T C 09:13, 16 June 2017 (UTC)


bmihealthcare.co.uk

bmihealthcare.co.uk: Linksearch en (https) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:frMER-C X-wiki • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Wikipedia: en - fr - de • Google: searchmeta • Domain: domaintoolsAboutUs.orgDomainsDB.netAlexaWhosOnMyServer.com Reputable UK healthcare organisation, whose website includes biographies of notable physicians, and decriptions of hospitals, many of which are historic buildings. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:02, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Troubleshooting and problems

Logging / COIBot Instr

Blacklist logging

Full Instructions for Admins


Quick Reference

For Spam reports or requests originating from this page, use template {{/request|0#section_name}}

  • {{/request|213416274#Section_name}}
  • Insert the oldid 213416274 a hash "#" and the Section_name (Underscoring_spaces_where_applicable):
  • Use within the entry log here.

For Spam reports or requests originating from Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Spam use template {{WPSPAM|0#section_name}}

  • {{WPSPAM|182725895#Section_name}}
  • Insert the oldid 182725895 a hash "#" and the Section_name (Underscoring_spaces_where_applicable):
  • Use within the entry log here.

Have added a supplement, a general " how-to of sorts. --Hu12 (talk) 10:31, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Note: if you do not log your entries it may be removed if someone appeals and no valid reasons can be found.

Addition to the COIBot reports

The lower list in the COIBot reports now have after each link four numbers between brackets (e.g. "www.example.com (0, 0, 0, 0)"):

  1. first number, how many links did this user add (is the same after each link)
  2. second number, how many times did this link get added to wikipedia (for as far as the linkwatcher database goes back)
  3. third number, how many times did this user add this link
  4. fourth number, to how many different wikipedia did this user add this link.

If the third number or the fourth number are high with respect to the first or the second, then that means that the user has at least a preference for using that link. Be careful with other statistics from these numbers (e.g. good user do add a lot of links). If there are more statistics that would be useful, please notify me, and I will have a look if I can get the info out of the database and report it. The bots are running on a new database, Eagle 101 is working on transferring the old data into this database so it becomes more reliable.

For those with access to IRC, there this data is available in real time. --Dirk Beetstra T C 10:41, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

poking COIBot

I notice that sometimes people who are not active on IRC need some link reports. Admins here can now add {{LinkSummary|domain}} to User:COIBot/Poke, when COIBot picks up the edit to that page (and it should), it will put the domains into its reporting queue (high priority, which is, only behind waiting XWiki reports) and create a report on the link(s). The first report should be saved within about 5 minutes, if it takes longer than 15 minutes there is probably something wrong, and it may be useful to add the template with the link again (it reads the added part of the diffs (the right column)), or poke me or another person who is active on IRC personally. Hope this is of help. --Dirk Beetstra T C (en: U, T) 12:46, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

P.S. Please don't overuse this function, everything still needs to be saved .. --Dirk Beetstra T C 12:54, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
It had some startup problems, but all seems to work fine now. --Dirk Beetstra T C 17:27, 4 June 2008 (UTC)


Discussion

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